There is some justice still...

[Lex]

I haven\'t seen the case and so I don\'t know the facts, but there is a difference between public property and open to the public. I haven\'t heard if this was a private cemetery or a military cemetary. Anyone know for sure?

 

[Sand Rat]

From what I\'ve read it was a private cemetary in the town. The WBC bunch tend to stand on the public right of way to do their protesting, so they can claim they were on public property (like someone mentioned before most of their adult members are lawyers).

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by Lex
I haven\'t seen the case and so I don\'t know the facts, but there is a difference between public property and open to the public. I haven\'t heard if this was a private cemetery or a military cemetary. Anyone know for sure?

Yeah, thats the crux of my whole argument.

If they were in the church where services were held, or in the privately owned cemetary, I think they were at fault. 11 millions dollars fault? Hardly. They should have been asked to leave, and if they refused, they could have been arrested with due process.

If they were on the road to the cemetary or any other public area, I still think they got screwed.

The large settlement proves that it was less about punishing them for what they were doing, as what they were SAYING.

Regardless...the whole freaking clan could get hit by a bus, and I wouldn\'t bat an eye.

 

[farseerlum]

so if i set up shop outside your place and wave around placards saying your the antichrist and yell at you anything i can think off that isn\'t actually slander but might still upset you then you\'d be good with this?

i\'m sure there could be extra punctuation in that sentance.

point is just because your on public land you don\'t have the right to harrass me. espescially if your using \"god\" to damn me with.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by farseerlum
so if i set up shop outside your place and wave around placards saying your the antichrist and yell at you anything i can think off that isn\'t actually slander but might still upset you then you\'d be good with this?

i\'m sure there could be extra punctuation in that sentance.

point is just because your on public land you don\'t have the right to harrass me. espescially if your using \"god\" to damn me with.

I see your point...and its a good one.

No, I\'m not \'good with it\'. I\'m sure I\'d be as mad as hell about it....I\'m also sure it might be worth the assualt and battery charge to smack the frickers in the head....

But, there is legal recourse for something like that as well. If they were disturbing the peace, creating an unsafe area, etc. all could be dealt with. If they were blocking access to my home, it could be dealt with.

Waving placards around, not so much.

I\'ve picketed with union members on strike, the same rules apply there.

It\'s easy to say we could curtail just the ones that are nusiance-ridden or hate-speech...sounds good in theory, but it will not happen that way.

I\'m making the old \'slippery slope\' argument. Once these things start happening, it won\'t be long before the politicians can twist it to thier agendas.

Enough of our rights have been chipped away under the auspice of \'homeland security\'...there has been much sinister legislation that the American public either ignores or is just oblivious of....

 

[Sand Rat]

See I don\'t see it that way - they are not being punished for what they said, but for the emotional damage it caused someone. No where did I see anyone say the WBC bunch had no right to spew their hate - just that they had to face the consequences of their actions.

 

[supervike]

dang....

that\'s a good point too Lloyd!!

I\'ll have to chew on that for a while!!

(i really love having these discussions, especially when it broadens my view of things!!)

 

[Stro]

A update for this ... Yes the are appealing the desicion against them ......
Now on to something that everyone has forgotten about ... I have been watching this whole thing with alot of interest .... It realy saddens me to no belief that another human being could be so cruel as this ... ( I personaly would have shot everyone of them) ... But now here is the Point ... The beloved (ARSE) of a preacher was seen leaving the court house with a big smile on his face ... Why you ask ... because he knows that when he appeals this in a higher court the verdict will be over turned .... How you ask ?... Well there is one thing you are all forgetting ..
Everyone here has brought up the piont of free speech ... wich does have a fine line that shouldnt be crossed ... harrasment ... defimation of character .... drgress ect ... all can be sued for ... why ... so we can somewhat control free speech .... Now the thing that we are forgetting about Is the right to express our religius beliefs ... The main thing this country was found for .... All this crap that spews from there sewer holes is in fact there beliefs and they have that right no matter what to express them (as long as there not sacrificing babies to satan or stuff like that) the ceremony was a private service but they were on public grounds almost a 1/2 mile away (big cementary) .... So unless what ever god you belive smiles done upon all the sane people of the world these idiots will walk away scott free ..... :flame: ... I am totaly a none believer but our country was built on these rights so it could protect people from prosucution of the afor mentioned stuff .... I hope that these idiots get what they deserve but i dont see it happening ...... /rant off

PS .. yes i know my grammar and spelling suck ..

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by Stro
PS .. yes i know my grammar and spelling suck ..

Firefox spell check is your friend (and mine).

I\'m not surprised they\'re appealing. It\'s their right to do so and like any sociopath, Phelps is very keen on his own rights. He\'s just not big on responsibility.

 

[mud duck]

These people ,by my understanding did more then picketing the funeral. They, as I understand picketed the fathers home, made threats to the father, and a couple of other things (I think). They \"force\" people into confrontations to get people into a shoving match so they can sue them. It made sound harsh but after the things that these people have done, I\'m happy to see something come back on them. I\'m all for freedom of speech, but there is a time and a place! And protesting at a funeral, a political cause, loud enough that a team of motorcycles has to be used as a \"white noise\" shield, so that the family can morn their dead son/daughter, is not the time!
just my two coppers

 

[wiccanpony]

I see two things happening...one, the group finially makes a mistake and the law get\'s them or some poor soul snaps and \"caps\" one of them. It troubles me to say it..but where\'s a drive-by shooting when you need one.

 

[farseerlum]

indeed. i\'m quite surprised that no ones paid some crackhead ganger to do for them. it\'s always what i see of america on TV. lol

well maybe it\'s time that a whole bunch of you nicer guys started picketing the picketers. it seems to be a good way to land a few bricks to the head in the ensueing melee. just make sure they start it and you\'ll be sweet.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally by Steelcult & Supervike
Steelcult:
See I don\'t see it that way - they are not being punished for what they said, but for the emotional damage it caused someone. No where did I see anyone say the WBC bunch had no right to spew their hate - just that they had to face the consequences of their actions.

Supervike: dang....

that\'s a good point too Lloyd!!
I\'ll have to chew on that for a while!!
(i really love having these discussions, especially when it broadens my view of things!!)

I\'ve been thinking on this issue (Traffic Jams again) to my understanding the Right of Free Speech as outlined in the First Amendment to the Consitution of the United States doesn\'t specifically say anything about accepting the responsibility for the consequences of said Free Speech.

Anyhow the saddest thing about this whole item is that Phelps and his whole family have got what they wanted most Publicity.
And I have no doubt that there will be people who will find that their henious points of view are acceptable and that raises concerns for me. *Shudders*

Anyhow lets hope one of two things happen.
Either:
Phelps and his crew decide to go San Francisco and picket a Gay Pride parade,
Or
They do something reallty stupid and Phelps ends up in Prison where he will meet \"Bubba\".
.
.
.
.
.
Now wouldn\'t that be Ironic.

 

[Roger Bunting]

I wonder if they will actually end up paying the fine. They\'d have to give up all their possesssions, including the cars that get them to these protests, the computers and cameras that help spread their word, etc. They have said that it would not stop them and their message and they quote something from the bible about poverty. I say they should prove it.

 

[Sand Rat]

I\'ve been thinking on this issue (Traffic Jams again) to my understanding the Right of Free Speech as outlined in the First Amendment to the Consitution of the United States doesn\'t specifically say anything about accepting the responsibility for the consequences of said Free Speech.
Posted by DR -

Mike thats because when that flawed and oh so human group of individuals met in Philly to right the constitution (ok, actually to rewrite the Articles of Confederation), they understood that people were responsible for their actions and felt that society would continue to see responsibility as a virtue, not an abberation.