Tierd of COOLmini or not

[Wombat85]

Well hello all, feel free to flame me on this. When I found this community I was excited, I was excited that I had found a group of like minded individuals who I could learn from and improve my painting. What I have got since I put My first mini\'s up on here was very little helpful information, more personal insults then I can poke a stick at and now I\'m at the point of once I post a mini never checking it again simply to save the annoyance of yet another flame. Why me you may ask? Well firstly I sell my mini\'s on eBay, and though they are not the next masterpiece by (insert top 50 artist here) they are of a high gaming standard and I have had no complaints over the standard for the prices I charge yet.
It seems to really have become COOL mini or not. If your in the top 50 you can never do wrong (though I do agree they rarely do) I don\'t know if anyone else is in this boat but I can expect maybe 10 negative/flame/useless comments to 1 comment that actually says whats wrong and WHERE. Anyone can sit there and go, colors are flat, paint to thick, next time you comment why not say where these things are problems.
Anti-flame suit on flame away and prove me right.

 

[squidders]

Hi Wombat,

I had a good look at each of your pictures and the ones that have comments, I think are very fair and not at all flaming.

In fact, I can see only about 3 comments in total and those are (from what I read in to it) aimed at helping.

I don\'t know where you see 10 \"flames\" and 1 useful comment so perhaps help us out by showing what comment is wrong and WHERE?

Seriously, your painting is tabletop standard or there abouts so the scores seem in line with that and the cold hard fact is that your paint could be thinner... all over... many thin layers.

Obviously this isn\'t cost effective if you\'re only charging £10 a mini but it\'s something that will get scored on and that is, I assume, why you posted pics?

If you don\'t get any complaints, what were you actually after regarding comments?

 

[Avelorn]

Ah. just approved a rant of yours!

Well.. you could only get low ratings. Isn\'t better then people tell you what they think is wrong? It is not their job to tell you how you exactly should do to improve, that can you easily find out by yourself. But anyway I can agree that one or two comments are harsh. But not to the point of abuse as you claim.

People do tend to treat people that paint for ebay a little harsher as well. Especially those that claim the \"propainted\" title. As part of an army people are generally more positive.

Anyway do you want help to improve there are loads of tips and articles available... if you are upset that people have opinions on what you do then I can\'t really help you. There are not a lot of samarians giving out nice encouraging comments to all even if there are a few. But If you want more encouraging posts wips and in the discuss submissions forum.

 

[beowulfthehunter]

Is it May yet? Have we had one of these yet this month? Look man I do not know how I can say this without hurtig your fragile ego, but \"GET OVER YOURSELF.\" I too looked over your gallery. Your paint is too thick, there is no transitions, and your photography is not up to par.

Perhaps your paintjobs are better, but if we cannot see them we cannot comment. Now feel free to check my gallery, my stuff is not the best I range from 5s-7s and I am happy. I know my skills and I know what works so I am happy and real about my scores. You need to do the same.

Perhaps your the king cock in your area of painting, I to was in mine, but it took me getting out of my comfort area to realize I had a lot left to learn.

If you cannot handle someone telling you the truth about your stuff without getting all EMO (put the razor down) then don\'t post it.

 

[Wombat85]

Umm ok, my rant got lost there somewhere. I am ranting because I get emails, not from clients, but from people on THIS forum criticizing my work, I don\'t claim to be top dog or even close, what I do claim is that if 5 is gaming standard, why people give 3\'s or is this community so full of itself to not have even noticed the benchmark, and i agree that my photos arn\'t the best its what i need to work on the most but i mean 3, a mini dipped in a vat of paint with only one color is almost worth a 3.

 

[miniDrake]

Sorry Wombat but blowing your top in this post and at Dragonsreach when he commented on your Konrad is just sad.

99.9% of your miniatures posted on cmon suck ass big time.11 years painting in what a dark room? or are you partially blind?.Sorry for sounding harsh but you need to grow up and level your painting there are a lot of guides out on the web that will help you improve.Go read them starting with the basics like thinning down your paint and shadow/highlighting miniatures.

Go look at your Rune Priest it shows promise the gold looks quite good yet the rest needs more contrast.But looking at your more resent posts it looks like you took 25 steps backwards.Looks like your just slapping paint on .

Go get a miniature and take a week to paint it follow guides and repaint parts till you get it to look good.Push yourself and stop painting the crap your doing at the moment that rune priest shows me you can do better if you apply yourself.

Crying like a spoiled brat will not make you a better painter but taking your time and learning from the top 50 painters on cmon will.Most are more than willing to help if you send them a pm and quite a few have guides on painting.Find a few and try them out.

 

[Avelorn]

Chill out! We don\'t want this to a bash poor Wombat thread.

@Wombat: Tabletop standards vary between people. Myself I would not consider a 5 to be only 3 paints and based for example. That said I voted a 5 on your Konrad and I am sure it looks better IRL. The face looks pretty good actually. I have to agree with miniDrake though that the Rune Priest looks far more inspired then later works.

What kind of emails have you recieved?

@Meg: Great advices!

 

[Jazz is for losers]

I think the comment left by Dragonsreach was indeed insulting and unneccessary. So much so that it seems like some sort of retaliation. Do you leave comments on other people\'s pics? Please post some examples here.

As for recieving offensive e-mails, I can see how that would be annoying, but tbh I don\'t believe it\'s true. Who\'s sending these messages? What are they saying?

I hope that this isn\'t too flamey for you.

 

[mattsterbenz]

Originally posted by miniDrake
Sorry Wombat but blowing your top in this post and at Dragonsreach when he commented on your Konrad is just sad.

99.9% of your miniatures posted on cmon suck ass big time.11 years painting in what a dark room? or are you partially blind?.Sorry for sounding harsh but you need to grow up and level your painting there are a lot of guides out on the web that will help you improve.Go read them starting with the basics like thinning down your paint and shadow/highlighting miniatures.

Go look at your Rune Priest it shows promise the gold looks quite good yet the rest needs more contrast.But looking at your more resent posts it looks like you took 25 steps backwards.Looks like your just slapping paint on .

Go get a miniature and take a week to paint it follow guides and repaint parts till you get it to look good.Push yourself and stop painting the crap your doing at the moment that rune priest shows me you can do better if you apply yourself.

Crying like a spoiled brat will not make you a better painter but taking your time and learning from the top 50 painters on cmon will.Most are more than willing to help if you send them a pm and quite a few have guides on painting.Find a few and try them out.

I find this particularly offensive. Shame on you, miniDrake.

Edit: Just took a look at some of Wombat\'s comments, and I do agree that DR\'s comment is unnecessary.

It\'s unfortunate that some people choose to be offensive rather than positive.


On a lighter note Wombat, I understand where you are coming from. Don\'t let people\'s attitudes get to you. Use everything as an opportunity to learn something, even the negative comments.

Ask yourself, who are you painting for? Are you painting miniatures to get nice comments, or are you painting them because you love to do it?

There\'s an art site I frequent, you may end up liking it. It is a far larger community than here, but I have yet to have a single negative experience there. Many people submit photos of their miniatures. The site is www.deviantart.com

Cheers,

-Matt

 

[Wombat85]

Ty meg for the feedback I always value your opinion and absolutely love your work. There ways to go about things and ways to go about things, I will from now on state that I aim for gaming standard on my mini\'s, this being my target consumers.

 

[miniDrake]

Originally posted by mattsterbenz


I find this particularly offensive. Shame on you, miniDrake.

Edit: Just took a look at some of Wombat\'s comments, and I do agree that DR\'s comment is unnecessary.

It\'s unfortunate that some people choose to be offensive rather than positive.


On a lighter note Wombat, I understand where you are coming from. Don\'t let people\'s attitudes get to you. Use everything as an opportunity to learn something, even the negative comments.

Ask yourself, who are you painting for? Are you painting miniatures to get nice comments, or are you painting them because you love to do it?

There\'s an art site I frequent, you may end up liking it. It is a far larger community than here, but I have yet to have a single negative experience there. Many people submit photos of their miniatures. The site is www.deviantart.com

Cheers,

-Matt

Sorry Matt if you find it offensive but sometimes people need a good kick up the butt and dear Wombat needs one.

The more I look at the gold on the rune priest the more I know he has talent and seeing it go to waste does piss me off.So sorry for being and coming across as offensive Wombat but I really do believe you can do better.And if you do push yourself not only will your scores go up but you will be able to get more for a miniature you have painted.

Sorry I\'m a little cranky tonight due to spending 15 hours painting 6mm Epics on commission.

I\'m Irish we are blunt by nature and say what we feel so I do stand by what I\'ve posted as I meant every word and Wombat I\'m more than willing to help you push yourself as a really believe your wasting you talents painting to that table top standard.

 

[skeeve]

Well, frankly I don\'t find Dragon\'s comment particularly offensive because the problems he pointed out are characteristic of this mini as a whole rather then specific parts.

In principle, comments are not a very productive feedback vehicle. If you want comments I would suggest posting on WIP or submission forums, although even then nobody can guaranty you productive feedback.

You have to realize though that guidelines you are referring to are just that - guidelines. There is no such thing as standard tabletop quality. Each viewer and painter decide for him/herself. As I pointed out on many occasions if I go to my local GW half of armies you see on table tops are not even primed. Compared to THAT any mini here should be rated 25+.

Obviously people here do not compare minies to this tipe of \"table tops\", therefore whether you like it or not you WILL be compared to top 50 simply because they are here.

May be instead of complaining how unfair life is you should compare your minies to those top 50 and see what and how you can improve.

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by Wombat85
Ty meg for the feedback I always value your opinion and absolutely love your work. There ways to go about things and ways to go about things, I will from now on state that I aim for gaming standard on my mini\'s, this being my target consumers.

I think that\'s perfectly reasonable, and there\'s nothing wrong with trying to achieve a piece that looks good on the table. Especially for profit, since time is money. But even DR\'s comment on that one mini was helpful - it pointed out specific technical problems (that most of us also have). I do think most of the advice offered here IS useful, if people are harassing you in the private messages maybe that\'s a separate problem. Stick around, maybe when you get a hankering to do a contest piece all those picky comments will come in handy

 

[evil tendencies]

Wombat, I posted a comment on your warrior priest. I hope it helps.

As for your original post, I would suggest that indignation is not likely to result in higher scores. It usually scares off people who might want to help you, and instead serves to feed the inevitable trolls.

 

[DaN]

Dude; use the WIP forums here if you want to improve (That and the painting & conversion forum)

It may take a while sometimes to get response from people, but the advice is more likely to be helpful and constructive than the comments on submissions, which people tend to look at for inspiration or reference (At least, I do)

 

[Yramrag]

Wombat, i know how you feel with not getting the scores you expect (and that is why i have only submitted 1 pic), but as everyone else has said, if you want help, go to the Work in Progress forum. With my first post, i got higher than i expected. I had thought a 6 and i ended up with a 6.7-6.9 (can\'t remember). I was happy with it as a gaming piece and although no one submitted any advice, i didn\'t mind. If people had bagged it, that is there right. It is a free world.

BUT, i do not want to put up an average paint job and have people tell me it is great. My wife watches a lot of Reality TV (Idol, So you think you can dance, Gordon \'F\' Ramsey and so on) and the thing that annoys me the most, is people who think they can sing/dance/cook only because everyone else they know has been to \"nice\" to tell them they should have given up a long time ago. I am not saying you shouldn\'t paint, it was just a metaphor. But don\'t ignore people who think your minis are painted to a lower standard than you feel they are.
Take criticism, ignore the insults, and focus on the support and advice. I thought the NMM gold on your Rune Priest shows that you have good ability as well as the rune on the kneepad. I have never had the guts to attempt doing them. But a lot of the rest of your stuff, was minimally done. I improved most a couple of years ago when i was in Japan and i spent a lot of time on Jenova\'s (there is someone who i think is a great painter and she only got high 7s and 8s) website, just getting tips and loking at people\'s entries and asking how a particular effect was done. I read heaps of articles and worked out what was good advice and what was crap.

 

[Dragonsreach]

It\'s a pity that I wasn\'t around yesterday to comment on this thread.

But for those of you who haven\'t read the comment I made on the mini which started this rant here it is:
\"I regret to say that this is a very poorly painted piece. In places there is little to suggest any dilution of the paints or even of highlighting beyond one colour. Shadows appear to have been placed haphazardly and without real consideration for the visual effect on the mini. Admittedly this is a complex mini but that is no excuse for not attempting to work hard at making it “Stand Out From The Crowd”, especially if you are attempting to put it up for auction.\"
And it was made on This Mini.

Now here\'s something I stand by my comments.
Just because I didn\'t patronise you, Wombat and say \"Ah what a lovely piece but needs X, Y & Z\" you\'ve thrown the proverbial Teddy bear out of the pram.

Well here\'s some news.
The comment I placed on your mini is far more complementary than the one I deleted from someone else.
And because of that comment I thought that you deserved the opportunity to have a more reasonable comment albeit not Sugar Coated and covered in Hearts and Flowers.

Wombat, before commentating I looked at your profile on your blog and you claim to have been painting 10 or so years, so I assumed that you have the discernment to accept criticism and addressed my points as I would to an adult.

I rarely make comments these days and for those critical ones I do, I aim to make points to the painter which are intended to indicate areas where improvements can be made. If this also stimulates conversations between the painters and myself then All The Better. I commented on your mini, Wombat with the intent of helping you to develop, because you show capacity to improve.

 

[tagron]

Originally posted by Wombat85

It seems to really have become COOL mini or not. If your in the top 50 you can never do wrong (though I do agree they rarely do) I don\'t know if anyone else is in this boat but I can expect maybe 10 negative/flame/useless comments to 1 comment that actually says whats wrong and WHERE. Anyone can sit there and go, colors are flat, paint to thick, next time you comment why not say where these things are problems.
Anti-flame suit on flame away and prove me right.

Hey buddy, antiflame suit is a cute way for you to say your not going to listen to anything you dont want to hear, and it also means you probably wont have any part of your mind changed.
But, even knowing that, i would like to atleast put up a defence for those as*holes who are sitting in the top 50 and cant do wrong.
Those guys got there because they are the best man, they put hundreds and hundreds of hours into those miniatures, and THAT is why they cant do wrong, because they take the time to do it right every time.

Now i understand, you didnt get any love while here, so your bitter. Your a good painter among your group of friends, and people pay you for a certain quality, again i get it. But that doesnt make you different from any other guy on here, and you know how many people there are on this site. If you wanted some attention payed to some aspect of you painting you make a post, like the one you just made, which as im certain you see has gotten you allot of attention. You then ask the community for help, this is how its done, not by submitting minis and waiting for the community to adress you.

Anyways, sorry if this is out of the blue or out of context now because of other posts, im just replying to the original post

 

[Infidel Castro]

I had a cracking Sunday Roast yesterday. It\'s the IMPORTANT things in life that really count

 

[redarmy27]

Being an ambitious perfectionist, I can tell how you feel. Aside from painting mini\'s, I am an ambitious paintballer. I\'ve been playing paintball for almost over half of my life (I\'m nearly 22 now and I started when I turned 11). For a long time I played with the same group of people and eventually became \"the best\" in the area.

With my selfesteem high and past experiences, I was put on my butt when I moved to a different part of the state and played the competition there. The competition there was fierce and it was incredibly disheartening to play against players of a better caliber and then get my butt handed to me.

After getting whooped on for such a long time, I sat back and took a look at what the better players were doing. I examined their techniques even though I had been playing much longer than the better players. Rather than stay stagnet and upset, I practiced and played and played against the competition.

Now, I\'m an incredibly rounded player with a competitive edge. I\'m not the best out there, but I can give almost anyone a run for their money. I take this same attitude to painting minis, my newest hobby of only three years.

Rather than be upset at the comments made by others, whether you see them to be offensive or not, take them as an incentive to make yourself even better. I know you\'re going for tabletop quality, but why not push your limits? If you push your limits as hard as you can, then it doesn\'t matter what anyone says to you.

That\'s my .02. To each their own I guess.