True Scale Space Wolves, Fluff Accurate Models and Rules

[AJAX40k]

Welcome to my thread!​

I tried posting in the gallery to get some comments but when that failed I decided to try the forums in the hope that the people who actually read the forums are more likely to comment

The goal of this thread is to get some feedback on my most ambitious and most fun project to date. I have been playing for about 11 years now, and ever since I learned about them the Space Wolves have been my army of choice. (Maybe it's my Norwegian heritage talking, but they are definitely the most fun in my mind)
Over Christmas I found www.MasteroftheForge.com and his tutorial on true scale space marines (the scaling up of the model to represent their size according to the fluff compared to normal humans)
The two ideas came together and I decided that I wanted to have my very own true scale Space Wolves army. And with the new Space Wolves codex and the possibility of a "Wolfwing" army, I found my conduit to a practical use for my wish.

Although, after some thought I decided I was not satisfied with the codex portrayal of the Space Wolves, and, in true Game Design fashion (I am a Game Design major), I decided that I needed to remedy the discrepancy between tabletop Space Marines and the Space Marines of the stories. Hence the second part of this thread.

I plan on posting pictures and I am looking for input about the sculpting. I will also look for feedback on the Fluff-accurate Space Wolves rules I post here.

The first three wolves are posted, more are on the way:
Wolf Guard Henir Bjornsson
Grey Hunter Haakon Little-Bear
Wolf Priest Sigurd Bloodbeard​

Thank you all for reading and I hope you enjoy my project!

AJ​

 

[Prophecy07]

Heh. Great looking marines; true scaling is always a time-consuming endeavor, but a full army of them always turns heads.

As far as making them match fluff, though... I don't see it happeing. To make SMs match GW's fluff, here's what you do:

Before the game starts, roll a d6. On any number 1 through 6, the marine player wins. One point for plucky human idealism, minus one point for the game.

 

[AJAX40k]

Thanks! They didn't take me all that long, it was mostly waiting for the green stuff to dry so I could move on to the next layer. Any constructive criticism? I am hoping that I will get a lot of double-takes when people walk by, they see the 40mm base... but then no Terminator on it. I haven't yet taken it to the local store, but it should be a good time.

The idea behind the list isn't so much a serious, well balanced game as a heroic last stand sort of scenario where the marines are outnumbered 100:1 and either die heroically in an awesome way or totally pwn face. The rules aren't about the end result, its about the story.

It is difficult to strike a good balance between resilience, power and "balance" but I think with some more tooling about I may have gotten there.
I tried to attach a PDF to the thread so you can check out the work-in-progress but the max size is so ludicrously small that none of it fits. So instead I am uploading it to Box.net:
Fluff-Accurate Space Wolves PDF

Let me know what you think!

AJ​

 

[freakinacage]

great stuff. i wouldn't use straight gs for the armour though, some of it could be smoother. maybe mix in some milliput/apoxie sculpt/magic sculp/brown stuff, it will make it harder and easier to file/sand

works very well for the hair though

love proper size marines

 

[DXM]

Nice conversion work.
Two little things I could suggest, one the thigh armour could be smoothed out a little and second watch for mold lines. There is one noticeable one on the underside of the handle of the knife on the Grey Hunter and one down the underside of the left arm of Wolf Priest.
But other than that keep up the good work and can't wait to see then painted.

 

[AJAX40k]

Yeah the mold lines are everywhere it's a little ridiculous. I swear I tried to get rid of most of them but there are inevitably some that I miss.
The greenstuff is, actually, deceptively smooth. It's smooth enough to be shiny- shinier than it appears in the pictures anyway. Although I'll keep that in mind for the future. By the way any particular thigh you are talking about? Or just generally smoother over all three?

I'm also wondering if anyone has had a chance to check out the rules yet, and if they have comments?

On a completely different note:​

I just realized I haven't said anything about the projected end of the endeavor!
The final army will be:

• Wolf Lord with a two-handed axe raised over his head (counts as Grimnar)
• The Wolf Priest, Terminator armor (that's Sigurd)
• A Rune Priest, Terminator armor (I can't think of any bit that could do for his staff. Anyone have any ideas?)
• A Venerable Dreadnought (I have the old Bjorn model but I'm considering the new FW one instead...assuming I can raise the money for it.)
• A Lone Wolf with Wolf Claws in Terminator Armor
• 10 Wolf Guard Terminators
  2 with assault cannons
• 5 Wolf Guard Terminators with frost blades/storm shields in Terminator armor (I need to find some good ideas for shields and maybe some unique weapon ideas?)
• And a Crusader (for the Wolf Lord, Wolf Priest, Rune Priest and the 5 wolf guard with frost blade/storm shield to pop out of and say "hey")

That's 19 true scale conversions in total. I decided to put no real effort into WYSIWYG, since these models are more about being totally awesome than entirely accurate. (For example: in my list the Wolf Priest should have a storm bolter, whereas on the model he clearly has a plasma pistol.) Although some will be more-or-less correct. (I am hoping that the frost blade/storm shield guys will be equipped with exactly that.) Each one will have his name painted on the base, if I am feeling adventurous I will probably do it in runes.

Of course, being the build-a-holic I am I will probably exceed my projections eventually, and may even end up selling a few of them. I enjoy it so much I am thinking about making them available to commission.

If you're interested PM me.

AJ​

 

[delta 408]

I like your work. Inspiring.

 

[freakinacage]

while it is smooth, as in shiny, it still look a little lumpy, not so much the thighs but the abdo on one and also the shoulder pad

 

[AJAX40k]

Ok so I've been a little lax on actually showing the WIP part of this thread. I intend to remedy that right now. I currently have three of the wolves going simultaneously so that when the greenstuff is drying on one I can immediately move on to the next.

Although the last couple times I've managed to actually make some time to work I have been working on my favorite part of the project yet- the Wolf Lord's axe. He's gonna have himself a giant double-bladed battleaxe (since he has to approximate Logan Grimnar), and he's going to have this thing raised over his head as if to hack someone in half. Its gonna be a good time.

Ok... I tried to post 5 pictures of my table and the works in progress I have on it for this project but I don't know how to get the pictures to work right without posting them somewhere online. Is there a way that I can just post them on this forum alone? Click and drag doesn't work, and neither does copy/paste.

Also- I've seen several downloads for the fluff-accurate wolves, but no one has said anything about it yet, thoughts?

AJ​

 

[wargamer43210]

Another Truescale convert

Very inspiring! I just finished my first truescale Grey Hunter last week. The work on Master of the Forge infected me too!

I'm going for an entire tournament army so I'll be at this for a while.

On the green stuff subject. I picked up some grey stuff this weekend and plan on ordering some brown stuff to try out. The green stuff never gets hard enough to file/sand.

I really love the beard and hair you added. I'm going to have to give that a go myself.

Cheers!

 

[AJAX40k]

My green stuff hardened just fine, and I've been able to file and sand some stuff down fairly easily. (the shoulder pad on Henir) Maybe it's your ratio of green:blue?

 

[Prophecy07]

Try using Imgur. I find it's the quickest and most simple way of posting pictures.

 

[AJAX40k]

Perfect! Thank you Prophecy!

As I said previously I have been lacking in the "WIP" part of this WIP thread, so here we go, some ever-so-slightly outdated pictures concerning the next three true scale Wolves, the Wolf Lord and two generic wolves...

That's the axe- I tried to model it after the Axe Morkai, Logan Grimnar's axe. Only much bigger, you'll see some scale in the next few pictures. The top bit has changed a little, I took two plasma pistols, cut the backs off of them and glued them together, then I placed it longways on the axe so from the side you can see the little coolant fringes and made it look less stuck-on by greenstuffing the sides. I'll get a picture soon. Probably on the finished model though, his stomach area is currently drying and waiting for power cable detail!

Basically the entirety of my Wolf Lord in pieces- you can see the arms tacked to the body in the upper left, although since the picture I've done some re-working and gotten it so it is possible for him to be cutting straight overhead rather than at an angle like in this picture.
I added some Wolfiness to the two shoulder pads- a wolf tail to one and a rune and some wolf teeth to the other. I added them mainly because one of them started off as a Deathwing shoulder pad- but I like the sword, so I modified it a bit so it wouldn't look too much like a terminator shoulder pad, and I cut away the parts of the sword that are tell-tale dark angel (the flared tip of the sword, the pointy hand guards and pommel etc.)
His head is going to be based on the one that's just screaming his head off with two braids coming off either side of his face, the original hair is styled essentially straight up, but I think I'm gonna change that and give him some proper flowing hair. He'll certainly be a redhead.

This wolf is gonna have an axe and be posed as if he just finished an overhead swing- feet stepping one in front of the other- I think it should be good.

Dude with a runic sword- that strange looking shoulder pad is another one of the Deathwing pads... I don't know what I want to do with it yet... I'm thinking maybe I'll sculpt a wolf of some kind but i really don't know. He's the last on my list right now. He's gonna be stabbing forwards with his sword right into someone's chest/face

That's my current workspace- cutting board for plasticard, plastic cafeteria tray for painting (way convenient for small pieces too- so I sometimes use it for conversions that don't require much cutting... but it holds a paper towel great and the one I have is very smooth so I can mix colors on it easily.)

Basically the feedback I'm looking for in this post is:

• What do you think of the axehead?
• Is the Wolf Lord cool enough to be a Wolf Lord?
• What do you think of the Deathwing shoulder pad? (Not that I'll change the Wolf Lord's because I like it too much I just want thoughts.)
• What about the other Deathwing pad? Should I bother to try and sculpt something or would it be better just to smooth it out and have it be plain?
• What do you think of the axe? *(not the Wolf Lord's axe but the regular wolf's one, it was a tricker conversion than I anticipated)*
• General thoughts and/or comments on the project so far?

Still looking for responses to my rules... there have been 11 downloads, I want to hear back!

AJ​

 

[Chrome]

Basically the feedback I'm looking for in this post is:

• What do you think of the axehead?
  I have no other choice than to say I love it, to do otherwise would be to talk down on my own axe I did a couple of years ago.(You can see it in my gallery)
  
• Is the Wolf Lord cool enough to be a Wolf Lord?
  I certainly believe he is, just put him on either a larger base than the others or a more elaborate one and you're good to go.
• What do you think of the Deathwing shoulder pad? (Not that I'll change the Wolf Lord's because I like it too much I just want thoughts.)
  I like it, but perhaps make a sun or something similar behind the blade to make it more elaborate?
• What about the other Deathwing pad? Should I bother to try and sculpt something or would it be better just to smooth it out and have it be plain?
  Why not try to sculpt something? if it fails the option of making it plain will still be there
• What do you think of the axe? *(not the Wolf Lord's axe but the regular wolf's one, it was a tricker conversion than I anticipated)*
  I think it might work, I just might have a more constructive comment once the model is assembled though
• General thoughts and/or comments on the project so far?

I like it! As of now I'm mostly curious to how it will look later on, right now it basically looks like any truescale wip but granted, your wolves are among the better ones out there.

Still looking for responses to my rules... there have been 11 downloads, I want to hear back!
The gamers that 'really' care about the rules are on other forums actually, most people here do not really care about it, I believe that's the reason there aren't many replies or comments about the rules.
I've skimmed through them and in a friendly game they just might work but I believe the mix between old and new rules you have might be confusing for some, it just might be better to stick to the new rules, add a commentary about your changes in them and let the opponent know paragraph by paragraph what is a changed rule and what is not. Otherwise it might be a bit too confusing to actually be fun. But that's just my opinion.

AJ​

Oh, and because I entered my message into the quote box the system found it too short so here's a meaningless rant you can ignore.

 

[cheelfy]

Basically the feedback I'm looking for in this post is:

• What do you think of the axehead?
  It is sooooo cool!
• Is the Wolf Lord cool enough to be a Wolf Lord?
  It is and I agree with Chrome about the bigger or better base.
• What do you think of the Deathwing shoulder pad? (Not that I'll change the Wolf Lord's because I like it too much I just want thoughts.)
  I like the shoulder pad.
• What about the other Deathwing pad? Should I bother to try and sculpt something or would it be better just to smooth it out and have it be plain?
  You should sculpt something like a wolf head or wolf fur I think.
• What do you think of the axe? *(not the Wolf Lord's axe but the regular wolf's one, it was a tricker conversion than I anticipated)*
  It will be good I think.
• General thoughts and/or comments on the project so far?

This is a very good project. I just love your wolves, they're some of the best. I really want to see them finished and painted, especially the wolf lord. Keep posting regularly pics of those amazing guys.

AJ

I also had the problem with the quote box so don't matter with that.

 

[Lamenter]

Thanks for the mention (and the link) mate, appreciate it

What do you think of the axehead?

I think it rocks. I might have to steal this idea.

Great start man, I'll be keeping an eye on this.


EDIT: I'll be emailing you about your Fluff Accurate Space Wolves rules and Games Design in general later on today, after I've had a chance to read through them properly. Cheers.

 

[AJAX40k]

Hmm... Bigger and fancier base, huh? How about a traitor guardsman standing there hands up in the "NOOOO" fashion and wetting his pants? Or maybe a chaos marine or demon face-up in the mud?

I've already made him slightly taller, at the expense of proper proportions, but it really isn't noticeable unless you're looking for it. Plus, it goes along with some great fiction by Philip Sibbering Even if you're not a 40k player, his fiction is just fun to read.

@Chrome: That is an impressive dreadnought. I am quite the fan. That axe was really one of m original designs... but I couldn't get it to look right, it kept looking more like a butterfly than an axe, so I went with something simpler. And how did you get those braids on the rune priest on a bike?
I really like the idea of a sun behind the blade- it ties in to the Fenrisian myth that the Emperor (or the All-Father, aka Odin) is the sun.
And you have a good point about sculpting something. Trouble is- I'm not sure what to do, the only think I've thought of so far is cutting up one of the symbols that comes with the Drop Pod and gluing that on. Then maybe continuing the sun theme...
You make a good point about the rules... I'm just spreading them about trying to get as many responses as I can. I'm not sure I know what you mean about the old rules and new rules... but if you mean what I think you mean: this work is supposed to stand on its own, without having to refer to the Space Wolves codex at all. Keep in mind that it is unfinished... I just haven't had time to sit down and DO it. Also keep in mind that these rules are not meant to be balanced, and only should be used in friendly or story-driven games.

@Cheelfy: Thanks! I appreciate the comment, it makes me feel like I'm not the only one who thinks they're awesome.

@Lamenter: I can't really nab your idea, run with it, and not credit you... Plus, your stuff is totally awesome, your site should get just as much traffic as CMON. The axehead is made from thick plasticard, the backs of Space Wolf thunder hammers cut in half, the power-thingey from the handle of the thunder hammer, and the back-end of two plasma pistols glued together. I am going to add a power cable (from the underside of a terminator's arm) as well once I've put the rest of the handle on.

Of course... now the pressure is on for me to paint these exceptionally, and the building and conversion side has always been my stronger area.

AJ​

 

[wargamer43210]

"My green stuff hardened just fine, and I've been able to file and sand some stuff down fairly easily. (the shoulder pad on Henir) Maybe it's your ratio of green:blue?"

I tried a higher blue to yellow ratio and it files down a little better. I used the grey stuff for the first time last night and must say that I like it a good deal more for the armour. Although I think it is just me being quirky! I love the axe head! and thanks for posting the how to notes. I'm 75% done with my first 10 figs.

After much debating and comments I did go ahead and widen the back packs following the Master of the Forge Tutorial. Did you decide against doing this part? I know that not everyone loves it but the wider ones do seem to fit the model better. Not that I'm looking for more work!

Do yu have any tips on doing the shoulder pads? I did 20 of them last night and it took forever to wrap the plasticard strips on the edges. Add it clipping, filing and tweaking and it spilled into today!

I can't wait to see your lord!

 

[AJAX40k]

Just a quick update with some pictures of the Lord on his way to completion- the arms aren't glued, the green stuff is just there as a support and to create a flat surface for gluing later, I'm going to sculpt the bumpy undersuit and probably some power cables .

I am working on his shoulder pads- I made a sun around the sword on his left shoulder pad (thanks again Chrome) and I used that other shoulder pad to make a moon with a wolf howling on his right, I'll take pictures soon, my camera ran out of batteries before I had a chance to finish.

AJ​

 

[Chrome]

@Chrome: That is an impressive dreadnought. I am quite the fan. That axe was really one of m original designs... but I couldn't get it to look right, it kept looking more like a butterfly than an axe, so I went with something simpler.
Thank you!

And how did you get those braids on the rune priest on a bike?
I actually braided three green stuff snakes and attached them afterwards. When it had cured for a few minutes I made the strands of hair in them with the tip of my knife.

I really like the idea of a sun behind the blade- it ties in to the Fenrisian myth that the Emperor (or the All-Father, aka Odin) is the sun.
And you have a good point about sculpting something. Trouble is- I'm not sure what to do, the only think I've thought of so far is cutting up one of the symbols that comes with the Drop Pod and gluing that on. Then maybe continuing the sun theme...
Perhaps you're on to a personal theme here?

You make a good point about the rules... I'm just spreading them about trying to get as many responses as I can. I'm not sure I know what you mean about the old rules and new rules... but if you mean what I think you mean: this work is supposed to stand on its own, without having to refer to the Space Wolves codex at all. Keep in mind that it is unfinished... I just haven't had time to sit down and DO it. Also keep in mind that these rules are not meant to be balanced, and only should be used in friendly or story-driven games.
That was kind of what I was saying, I think. If you write the rules in this manner:

The Rule Of Doom
(The original rule description from codex/WD/Whatever You could even source reference it just for the sake of it)
(Changes your own codex makes to the rule)
(Motivation to why/Piece of fluff)

That way you can use the 'real' names for the rules without confusing your opponent and without either of you wanting to look up the original rule for whatever reason, all info is there and comparable.
Of course, using the original name for the rule might make your opponent want to use your verion of the rule instead just because it might be cooler so another way of writing your rules could be like this:

The Rule Of Doom
Counts as rule (Whatever applies, page xx WH40kRB) but with the following changes and additions:
(changes your own codex makes to the rule)
(Original rule in small font for comparison)
(Piece of fluff/motivation)

This will (in my mind at least) rule out most of the confusion that might surface while playing while still 'making' new rules that does not bring up the issue of who, where and what will use them.

Of course... now the pressure is on for me to paint these exceptionally, and the building and conversion side has always been my stronger area.
Just have to say that I know exactly how you feel there.
AJ​

Regarding last post: I'd love to see your sun on the shoulderpad!
And I definitely like the way the Wolf Lord is turning out!
When it comes to bases I'm a huge fan of snow clad plateaus, so that's where my 2 cents lie. That chaos warrior face down in the snow being stepped on is also something that appeals to me.