Turning the hobby into a job

[generulpoleaxe]

Really nice to read such a positive thread.

I know entirely what you mean about spending more time talking and thinking about what to do and when it comes to the crunch ending up not doing any painting - and wow, have you turned that around! The speed and quality that you turn models around is remarkable and getting nice payments like you are on ebay is a real positive boost.

If I'm honest, I'm a bit envious about your whole enterprise, I've been itching to start a small business selling things to a hobby industry and have baulked at it for fear of failure. Four years ago I went from doing websites & web apps as a hobby and small part of my job to doing it full-time, and completely lost the love I had for it. I think suddenly doing it professionally and *having* to do repetitive jobs and things that didn't interest me caused this. Occasionally I'll be allowed to undertake a new development on my own, and that little spark of enjoyment comes back. But I do have that lingering fear that I'll lose what I enjoy if I were to branch off into something in this hobby. However I think being your own boss and making your own decisions would keep the enjoyment flowing.

Fingers crossed and great that things are finally looking up - clearly you've built up a decent supply of karma points

Easy solution is to take up a new hobby, as I both teach guitar and paint models I decided to take up lifting weights (I was seriously out of shape anyway) and it has started to bring some joy back into my life.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Wishing you the best of luck in the venture.
I've considered taking such a plunge a few times, but my biggest concern (for myself) is that the hobby might lose its joy for me if it's also my job.

 

[Farnesio]

Wishing you the best of luck in the venture.
I've considered taking such a plunge a few times, but my biggest concern (for myself) is that the hobby might lose its joy for me if it's also my job.

This is exactly what happens to me when I paint commission jobs.

If I paint whatever I want to paint , I enjoy it, but having to paint many minis I do not want to paint in that moment makes it lose its joy.

Anyway, good luck in your business.

PS: Your minis are fantastic, but I think these last ones (the monsters ones) finally made a price over their level, but hey that is always good..XD

 

[lono]

I don't plan on just doing commission painting. There is usually at least one big GW release a month, and I am more than happy to paint up a bulk of those to just sell directly on Ebay, I have all kinds of minis ready to go at in my collection that I'll also just put on Ebay. Also, I plan on mixing it up with terrain and stuff like that. I'f confident I can keep myself entertained.

Farnesio - I agree that the Ogre stuff went for silly money, but by starting my auctions at 99p and getting new releases up quick - I always end up with a ton of watchers. All it takes is a few of them to get attached to the models and things go crazy. I'm not expecting this level every time, but every so often is fine with me!

As for the price being over their level, I actually don't actually think there is any such thing on Ebay. Demand and desire utterly dictates the price, so whatever the final price is is exactly their level. I get that you are saying - paint job skill to price ratio - it's not on the same level as other artist's work and the price doesn't make too much sense to me - but it did to the winning bidder.

 

[Tel]

Good for you. You are doing what many of us wish we has the talent or courage to do ourselves. I for one will be hoping you make a great success and have a blast along the way!

 

[Farnesio]

Farnesio - I agree that the Ogre stuff went for silly money, but by starting my auctions at 99p and getting new releases up quick - I always end up with a ton of watchers. All it takes is a few of them to get attached to the models and things go crazy. I'm not expecting this level every time, but every so often is fine with me!

As for the price being over their level, I actually don't actually think there is any such thing on Ebay. Demand and desire utterly dictates the price, so whatever the final price is is exactly their level. I get that you are saying - paint job skill to price ratio - it's not on the same level as other artist's work and the price doesn't make too much sense to me - but it did to the winning bidder.

I think it was a matter of getting all those shiney new releases up there really quick.

That and of course the fact that they are amazing, no doubt.

But you get me when I talk about the "level": surely they could have smoother blendings (specially on the ogres` flesh), but perhaps if you make those blendings you should sell them later (by that meaning a lower price).

Anyway I think they have a fantastic look, and they will have it on the tabletops, but you could paint them better..xD That is one of the reasons I get tired of commissions too...not being able to spend the time I need to make better blendings, etc.

 

[kathrynloch]

I don't plan on just doing commission painting. There is usually at least one big GW release a month, and I am more than happy to paint up a bulk of those to just sell directly on Ebay, I have all kinds of minis ready to go at in my collection that I'll also just put on Ebay. Also, I plan on mixing it up with terrain and stuff like that. I'f confident I can keep myself entertained.

Farnesio - I agree that the Ogre stuff went for silly money, but by starting my auctions at 99p and getting new releases up quick - I always end up with a ton of watchers. All it takes is a few of them to get attached to the models and things go crazy. I'm not expecting this level every time, but every so often is fine with me!

As for the price being over their level, I actually don't actually think there is any such thing on Ebay. Demand and desire utterly dictates the price, so whatever the final price is is exactly their level. I get that you are saying - paint job skill to price ratio - it's not on the same level as other artist's work and the price doesn't make too much sense to me - but it did to the winning bidder.

Bingo! A nice bidding war is fun to watch any day. Sit back and grab the popcorn all you gotta do is hit refresh every so often. lol!

In this hobby and in my model horse one (Farnesio - if you want to see a crazy stupid price, find my Holy $h.... thread - you'll freak. ) most artists don't do solely commissions. A lot of product gets moved on auctions of what they decided to paint - just like Iono did. Commissions are typically where you can get the higher prices but you don't get as many of those, so you move basic product on Ebay through the open market.

Typically, unless the commissioner has a specific deadline to meet, it's the painter who sets the deadline. And if you're like me and take your time, as long as your customer knows up front, they are usually good with it. So there should be no reason to rush to get something done.

And one last point is that on the open pieces being released on Ebay, if the painter chooses to release these at a certain level, then no, those blends don't need to be Golden Demon quality. Just because someone decided they wanted that particular mini come hell or high water, has no bearing on quality. That's what happens with Ebay. It is entirely possible to have table-top quality go for Golden Demon prices and Golden Demon Quality go for "can't give it away with a dollar tied to it" prices.

 

[marjedi]

Good luck on your venture.

Get a good buisness plan together, and find a nice. Every small mini company i stumble on makes bases, so avoiding that would be a good idea i think. Oh and be carefull of conversion kits so you dont step on someones ip

 

[paintbynumber]

Good luck following your passion always inspiring to see others taking the risk. Keep the community up to date.

 

[lono]

Well, it's been a while since I put this thread up and a few people said to keep a log of progress. So, what's happened, what have I learned, etc?

Mini painting
I've had lots of work distractions (only 4 working days until I go part time though!) and life stuff has kept me busy (friends' wedding, gf's birthday, etc) but since the bulk load of Ogres I'd got done when I last updated this thread I've managed to paint:

- a Skaven Blood Bowl team which is on Ebay at the moment
- 2 copies of Dreadfleet, which netted me around £580 profit
- a wedding cake topper gift for my now married friends which is my highest rated thing on CMoN and they seemed to totally love, which was great

I've also developed an idea for a challenge (something I thought of a while ago and never completed), tracked in a blog, to paint a fixed amount of models over the course of 2012. Rather than just crank out rubbish though, I'll have achievement type goals to hit, such as a certain average score on CMoN; getting some Golden Demon entries sorted; selling 5% of the minis for charity rather than profit; doing 5 models that score over a 9 on CMoN, etc. (and before anyone says it, I know scores aren't really that important, but they are about the best benchmark of quality I can easilly get on the internet).

It'd be epic motivation to paint and I could do product reviews, give tips and advice, track my progress on projects, etc. I think it's a decent plan.

It'll certainly be over 500 minis in the year, and I'm thinking 666 may be a suitably evil tally to aim for!

So that's the good stuff!

Less positive was the nightmare of getting my Ogre models through Russian customs, and after investigating the absolutely insane amount of extra effort needed compared to any other country in the world, I will not be selling to Russia any more. It's just not worth the hassle.

I've also found out a staff member at my local GW store has an issue with me buying stuff to then sell on, which would be ok if he hadn't vocalised it to other customers. I'm not really upset, just suprised at how dumb someone could be! So, I will be getting that dealt with.

Mini company
I'm learning lots and although the need for a little trial and error is slowing me down at times, things are coming together. I've made it through some worrying and frustrating moments relatively unscathed this month, and with some cool results.

I am experiencing varying levels of professionalism from the people I'm working with, but generally satisfied they will get things sorted in the end and to a good standard. It's just a pain having to battle to keep communication going. One of my guys is flippin amazing though and I'm hoping to get him on board as a regular sculptor. God bless America (and Skype saving me a fortune on international calls)!

I've got logos sorted out now - A company logo, one for the first range and one for each of the six gangs in that range. I'm really pleased with them.

The website will be ready soon but I think I'm going to shift back the proposed launch by a month or so. I'd rather be on top of things and have a bit of a backlog ready than constantly stressing over finding new stuff.

So, the site will be online in the run up to Christmas, and the first mini will be ready to buy February or March time, with new stuff every month from then on...

And that's a whole lot of ramble!

 

[kathrynloch]

Sounds great Iono! Any way you can get some stuff up for Christmas? 'Tis the season and all that, retail loves it for a reason.

And what about 333? That way you're only half evil. (I kid! I kid!) lol!

 

[PegaZus]

I've also developed an idea for a challenge (something I thought of a while ago and never completed), tracked in a blog, to paint a fixed amount of models over the course of 2012. Rather than just crank out rubbish though, I'll have achievement type goals to hit, such as a certain average score on CMoN; getting some Golden Demon entries sorted; selling 5% of the minis for charity rather than profit; doing 5 models that score over a 9 on CMoN, etc. (and before anyone says it, I know scores aren't really that important, but they are about the best benchmark of quality I can easilly get on the internet).

It'd be epic motivation to paint and I could do product reviews, give tips and advice, track my progress on projects, etc. I think it's a decent plan.

It'll certainly be over 500 minis in the year, and I'm thinking 666 may be a suitably evil tally to aim for!

Interesting how great minds think alike. Going to be doing something similar for the same reason (not cranking out junk), starting last night actually. My motivation is different, so I'll not be doing a fixed number of models although I certainly considered it. Want to buy more minis, but I've got too many unpainted. So, I plan on giving myself points (1 pt for posting a WIP picture with progress, 10 pts for gallery submission, and 1 pt for every tenth of a point over 5.0 score). Then I let myself purchase a new mini for every 50 pts I earn. I might adopt your charity selling idea, too, if I don't buy a bigger display case.

I'll race you. See if I can reach 1000 pts before you reach 500 models.

 

[lono]

I'll race you. See if I can reach 1000 pts before you reach 500 models.

That'd work out as something like me doing 500 models to your 50 wouldn't it (depending on how crazy you went with wip picture frequency) and you'd have a head start of a few months... Not sure that's fair!

Let's see about a friendly wager once the new year arrives though eh?

Also, I like the points system you've come up with. Don't think it would work for me, partly because I often go too fast to take wip shots! but it sounds pretty solid.

 

[PegaZus]

That'd work out as something like me doing 500 models to your 50 wouldn't it (depending on how crazy you went with wip picture frequency) and you'd have a head start of a few months... Not sure that's fair!

Let's see about a friendly wager once the new year arrives though eh?

Also, I like the points system you've come up with. Don't think it would work for me, partly because I often go too fast to take wip shots! but it sounds pretty solid.

Yeah, originally I had it at 500 pts, but decided that was too easy. But then again, I'm not a painting machine, so 1000 pts is a far goal. Assuming 20pts for each mini's WIPs, 10 pts for the gallery, and a score of 7.0 (very generous since I've scored 6.0 ONCE, and for another 20 pts), I'd still have to paint 20 models. I think I've done four in the last year.

You'd probably beat me!

 

[Black Jasper]

james, you cant go wrong with this, so dont worry. talent isnt always a guarantee of success, but you do have some drive to back it up. youll be fine xx

 

[lono]

james, you cant go wrong with this, so dont worry. talent isnt always a guarantee of success, but you do have some drive to back it up. youll be fine xx

Chico! I've been keeping the pineapples on standby for you hombre, now let's get busy. Sexy time! Bueno!! xx

Just in case anyone's wondering I am already somewhat familiar with Black Jasper despite that being his first post. I haven't utterly lost my mind... Well, perhaps a little. Get some minis up here so you can suffer the baffled, irate wonderment of how lowly some folks will rate your pretty paint jobs.

As for that drive - of late it's not been to paint miniatures, but I'm just kinda saving myself up and giving attention to other things. Important stuff still, but not brush related. I have a collection of things to do for the Wyrd Rotten Harvest, and plan on finishing at least one for the 31st, so that's the mission now.

I have these guys on the way through the post, so I suspect they might grab my attention. Hopefully I can do a paint job close to these ones.

 

[alextheartist]

Black Jasper, aka Pete the carnivore

 

[Black Jasper]

haha alex im sure i dont know what you mean....

where are the two minis from you posted up? love the little tin man.
Yeah with my temper james im predicting some scoring rage issues ... expect some text rants. assuming i ever get anything finished.

with regards to the thread, ive looked at my own minis for a while now, theres a lucrative trade in trad toy soldiers, but every time i get the cash together for the casting equipment something (usually brunette with issues) comes along and burns it up.......
but the way you are going about things is good and secure, the steady income from the painting will tick over nicely, i seriously think you should extend it into a studio tbh embracing allsorts of commission work to run concurrently to everything else.....

 

[lono]

The models are Rackham resins. They were pretty limited. I got them off a guy on eBay after a few messages back and forth. Hopefully they'll arrive tomorrow.

My first half day doing the freelance painting thing didn't really go so well, due to a friend bringing over a stack of clothes he no longer wanted, which I have to sort through and get up to sell on eBay. They'll make a bit of money, but right now most of my room is packed with clothing, so no space to get the paints and airbrush on the go. And I had finally started to approach a state of de-cluttered peace and tranquility too. Grrr!

 

[lono]

Been a while since I updated this...

I'm a full time mini painter now. I've been at it for a while and although it's been a steep learning experience at times, particularly in self-motivation and control of the odd panic about not having a regular salary, it's becoming a good experience. I'm happy doing what I do. I couldn't be more content about looking up from my desk and seeing tons of finished models that I've done actually, which is what I was hoping for.

Things have really kicked off since 2012 started. I was a bit slow on the uptake at first, and certainly wasted some time, but so far I have:

- Launched a blog - http://project-666.com
- Painted 38 models
- Sold some
- Started to make some contacts and line up various commission posibilities
- Progressed my other business of setting up a miniature range.

And it's the development of my mini range that has really prompted me to post today I guess. Things have been slower than I had hoped. Not slower than expected, because I expected problems, you should always expect problems! Those problems get forgotten at times like this though (it has to be said, this sculptor was rapid and dead reliable, so yay for him!) because I got delivery of the first fully finished model today. This is a damned exciting moment for me. It was finished a few weeks ago and I've just been waiting on my payment to clear and international shipping to get it to me. I'd seen photos, but they don't really prepare you for that rush of geeky pride that comes from carefully opening the packaging and seeing a gorgeous 32mm model you've conceived, commissioned concept art for, and then had made into a tangible thing by a skilled sculptor. It's a rush, let me tell you! Fighting the urge to paint the master right now.

Not only is that model now ready to cast, I have a digital sculpt completed too. It needs to be 3D printed and then that's ready for casting. I may do this one as a large scale model first and thanks to it being digital, print it at 32mm later on for a smaller scale release. She'll make an awesome garage type kit I think and already I want to start airbrushing her!

Also, work on another of my models is starting to show serious promise (as in, holy shit, is it really possible to put that much detail on such a small area type promise) so I'm getting more anxious for that to be finished off as well.

Aaaand, another very skilled and respected digital sculptor should be finishing another model in a month or so.

So, touch wood, by mid March I'll be getting all four cast up in an initial limited run, will launch my mini studio's website soon after that, and each month from then on, you'll be able to buy one of those models off me. Hurrah!

So, until then, here is the most teasery of teaser pictures for each of the minis!

Digital file for one model p)
View attachment 10368

Another mini in its box (double )
View attachment 10369

A foot and trouser leg - a very nice foot and trouser leg if I do say so myself - on the wip model (thought I'd give just a little taster)
View attachment 10367