War is Coming

[dogfacedboy uk1]

I'm always interersted in discussions about developing games/games systems from several points of veiw, so here's a few thoughts. (Although please bare in mind that out of 20 something years of gaming {again} the amount of games I've won can be counted on two hands with fingers spare).

Small Games are Fun, two to three squads in Secrets of the Third Reich is a good gaming level (30-35 figures). That allows for enough flexibility to run for an hour or two and still have enough of a body count to keep the table top undertakers happy. Malifaux to me, has hit a good combination of size against game play.
Complexity spoils games, The old K.I.S.S acronym works really well with games. Keep the mechanics quick, easy to learn and importantly easy to reference, while I like SOTR the rule book is not the best laid out for referencing. Having to constantly refer back to a book because something is too complex to remember becomes frustrating.
Keep the "Special Rules" down to things like "Digging in for cover!"
Killing machines, If the games good you don't need Uber Tough Characters, hard to kill Psycho heros able to be cutting their way through an entire army. This may sell more of this character, but destroys the pleasure of a game. Ditto for having Uber tough weapons which cut through anything in their path, that might be good for the player who is using it but the receiving end Sucks. To paraphrase Frederick Forsyth "No matter how many Bombs, Tanks or Artillery you throw at an enemy, it comes down to some poor sod with something just a step up from a sharpened stick to go and take the last 100 yards!". Large scale games really need to be about the P.B.I., not the Hero.
Balance; what's the point in making one army so much stronger than any other? Each should have a balance of capabilities and drawbacks which enhance the playability, not stomp all over an opponent.

All in all while all this is just my thoughts on this I still think that first and foremost the whole thing should be Fun.

These are all very important points. I dont play tabletop games myself, but I have always been into gaming - be it video games or boardgames and RPG's in my youth. I have a big fat warhammer 25th anniversary book, only thumbed through it briefly but my first thought was "shit, thats a lot of stuff to learn...."

Dragonsreach's last point is extremely important. This is what makes the game interesting, choosing the correct pieces to field against the forces of your opponents and render his advantages inadequate against your army. A variety of interesting units with varied abilities further complicates strategies. This is where the main complexities should lie - not in the rules themselves. Simple rules, complex strategies and options would be the way to go. And certainly a very quick way to access the rules should reference be required. I dont like the idea of having to wade through a book as big as the current warhammer one. It looks lovely and you feel like you are getting value for money, and to be honest I have no idea how much is background info as opposed to rules, but definately keep it simple to learn with a wide scope for tactics and strategies.

dfb

 

[montka]

Thanks Dragonsreach, you're on the exact same wavelength as me here on every count

The only exception is the Killing Machines - I want them bad - badass models, cool fluff. I have just given them all weaknesses so that strategists will have noobs running crying to mother, whatever list or build they choose.

~Only 'trouble' is game balance. I see this as a labour of love taking many years to complete to my satisfaction, so I could be selling out my artistic credentials on ebay to pay the bills for a looong time yet.

One brightside is that since the start of this post I have heard from a college buddy in the MOD who'll help playtest, a mate who's a local nuclear engineer who wants to playtest, and a new client for my painting commissions who's ex SAS who might write a few stories...

God Rocks! XD

Also I had the idea, maybe next year some time, anyone who wants to playtest the game can come and stay at the Allerdale Court Hotel here in my home town or Cockermouth and have a games themed getaway? This is a great land that inspired artists like John Ruskin, Coleridge and Wordsworth. And we've kept the Scottish of your backs so you have that to be thankful for.

 

[Dragonsreach]

And we've kept the Scottish of your backs so you have that to be thankful for.

No you haven't....... 'Sweaty's' are everywhere, inculding my family.

Montka you in Cumbria then?

 

[generulpoleaxe]

No you haven't....... 'Sweaty's' are everywhere, inculding my family.

Montka you in Cumbria then?

Kept them off our backs, they gave them the keys to bloody Westminster!

 

[Hasdrubal]

The best wargame I've played is De Bellis Multitudinis: quick to play (3 hours max), focus on the command structure and movements, very little randomness in combat provided one maveuvers her forces against the right opponents, and uses a common terminology.
I've not yet had chance to try its successor (De Bellis Magistrorum Militum), but I recommend either DBM or DBMM reading to anyone interersted in creating a set of wargame rules.

 

[dogfacedboy uk1]

Kept them off our backs, they gave them the keys to bloody Westminster!

The Scottish are fellow countrymen, I'd be more worried about those slithering euro snake MP's who allow Brussels to control our country. I hate sprouts, but I hate Brussels more.....

dfb

 

[generulpoleaxe]

The best wargame I've played is De Bellis Multitudinis: quick to play (3 hours max), focus on the command structure and movements, very little randomness in combat provided one maveuvers her forces against the right opponents, and uses a common terminology.
I've not yet had chance to try its successor (De Bellis Magistrorum Militum), but I recommend either DBM or DBMM reading to anyone interersted in creating a set of wargame rules.

If you want to win with DBx games do not deploy a center, you can then flank him and flanking gives you the win.
It's a huge flaw with the rules as the sword and shield tactic as well as the pincer only works in reality with the shield (pinning your opponent thus allowing you to flank him.

@dfb if you want to chat about how the eu works and how goverments abuse it then p.m. me (the basic idea of the EU is sound)

 

[montka]

@Dragonsreach

Yes mate Cumbria is where I am, how about you?

Euro may be a bitch but we have to trade with somebody?

 

[dogfacedboy uk1]

@Dragonsreach

Yes mate Cumbria is where I am, how about you?

Euro may be a bitch but we have to trade with somebody?

You don't need to be a member of the EU to trade with countries in the EU. Its an abysmal waste of money and yet another gravy train for the MP's to ride. And there is no logic in making laws in one country so far removed from the country that will feel the outcome of those laws. Thanks for the offer generalpoleaxe. I am not heavily into politics it's just that some stuff offends my basic common sense but if I have questions I will certainly PM you, thanks. I am not in agreement on the point that its concept makes any sense or is sound in principle though I must say. All you need is free trade and freedom to move about/work. thats it. I see it as a means to erode national pride and culture. They have way too much power over us and its been stolen from under our noses. When I am in Spain, I want to be in Spain, not Europe.....

Anyway getting back to the topic, perhaps when you forumulate fluff you could incorporate basic inter faction politics into the rule system when you cover allies/mercenaries that type of stuff so some races won't fight together or get bonuses/penalties to morale when faced with certain factions. Very basic of course, although you could possibly come up with more involving ideas for campaign games.

dfb

 

[Dragonsreach]

@Dragonsreach

Yes mate Cumbria is where I am, how about you? Bolton, Lancs and an easy drive up the M6. Me & my boots wandered over a fair few hills up there.

Euro may be a bitch but we have to trade with somebody?
Trade isn't the issue, politics and the politicians are.

......................

 

[montka]

@dfb we're on the same track of feeling. My game will be very political, without brassing off anyone's national pride and self determination insofar as I get the balance right.

Or I might name a teddybear in it Mohammed and get a free visa into America with the ensuing fatwha XD

 

[Palaemon]

In my experience, writing a good game engine is - after a certain amount of groundwork - a matter of taste: some people prefer intricate and detailed rules for different kinds of weapons (I don't), others like to have their rules/mechanism complexity more on Morale/C&C decisions (I do), to give two examples.

So I don't think it will be possible to design a game engine that will make everybody happy. Rather try to make a particular set of gamers happy, pulling in others through fluff and models. I would advise to make the decisions on what you want to see in the engine for each aspect (weight of C&C, detail level, importance on list building, etc) consciously, maybe even publicly here on the forums.

And then, once these goals have been set, make sure you write rules that live up to them. Many's the game I've never played because, even though liking the engine, I found the presentation of the rules incomprehensible.

 

[dogfacedboy uk1]

Well the important thing about designing a game is exactly that - it should be about the game. Rules need to be short, sweet but detailed enough to convey a fair sense of realism or a good mechanic. This is why I love Talisman - it has plenty of depth to satisy the gamer but is very simple nontheless. This is why I always like the idea of a campaign, it adds a lot of depth and builds up a sense of rivalry, if you lose a battle there are more to come.... it immerses the players in the game aspect. I would definately implement a campaign module to the game system. I dont know how you'd want to do it, maybe something along the lines of a finite amount of points to each player to make the units more valuable and have the battle map giving bonuses when the campaign for that world is won, I think I already mentioned some details on this previously. Rules second, gaming fun and cool models/units first I would say.

dfb