War: pros and cons
- Thread starter vincegamer
- Start date
All I will say...
If you join the military, expect to go to fecking war at some point. Don\'t complain about what war you get sent to. You had the choice.
And if you\'re a family member of someone who went to war voluntarily, don\'t cheapen their decision by picketing outside Bush\'s house.
If you join the military, expect to go to fecking war at some point. Don\'t complain about what war you get sent to. You had the choice.
And if you\'re a family member of someone who went to war voluntarily, don\'t cheapen their decision by picketing outside Bush\'s house.
funnymouth
Active member
how is it cheepining it? the soldier is doing his job either way. disagreeing with the war because your scared for your skin is one thing, but disageeing with a war because you dont think it\'s just is another. expect to fight, and kill, of corse; that doesnt mean you should abandon your principles.
I think I\'ve been a bit misuderstood. I did not mean to say that total war or war of attrition is the only way to go. I meant this: was is never the objective, only a means to an (political) end. This being understood, it should be also understood that when politics cross over to the actual act of fighting and effect the way operations are being conducted, we have a recepie for failure. Politics should dictate the objective of war on political terms and the boundary conditions that are placed, but the way the operations are conducted and the military tools used to attain the military objectives, with which the political objectives are reached should not be hindered. This is not really my own original thought, but something along the lines of Carl von Clausewitz and his book Vom Kriege. I think especially chapter I would help many in this discussion.
See also wikipedia: Carl von Clausewitz
I also agree with the sentiment that people in the military (especially in countries like US where the military is used a lot for other things than defending their actual sovereignty) should be prepared mentally for the possibility of actually having to fight iin a war. But why this would mean that people in the military would be automatically pro war is beyond me. After all, they are the ones fighting and dying. They should be the ones with most concern that the political etc. reasons for the war are \"just\" and the data given to the general public is correct.
Ziggi
See also wikipedia: Carl von Clausewitz
I also agree with the sentiment that people in the military (especially in countries like US where the military is used a lot for other things than defending their actual sovereignty) should be prepared mentally for the possibility of actually having to fight iin a war. But why this would mean that people in the military would be automatically pro war is beyond me. After all, they are the ones fighting and dying. They should be the ones with most concern that the political etc. reasons for the war are \"just\" and the data given to the general public is correct.
Ziggi
funnymouth
Active member
hey, remember that movie where countries fought wars in arenas with big robots?
chrismisterx
New member
that movie rocked 
what was it called again ?
i think it was based on battle tec or was battle tec based on it ????
what was it called again ?i think it was based on battle tec or was battle tec based on it ????
Disturbed1
New member
Was it Robot Jox?
I remember a couple of films in the early-mid 90\'s had similar concepts.
I remember a couple of films in the early-mid 90\'s had similar concepts.
philologus
Subgenius
Originally posted by green stuff
There have been some exceptions :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaceful_revolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution
These articles are good reasons why Wikipedia should be taken cum granis salis The peaceful revolutions mentioned were hardly the leading cause of change in these countries. The imminent collapse of the Soviet Union had A LOT to do with this. Without support from the USSR these countries would not be able to hold out. Had the USSR remained intact these communists likely would have responded to these students the same way the Chinese communists do, run over them with tanks, arrest, torture, execute....
Wow interesting thread, so many points of view! I don\'t have a whole lot to add, and am not really addressing this to any of the above comments.
First off, I would love to see a show of hands of folks here who have been in the military?
OK now keep your hand up if you have ever been in a war...
Wow that many! I am surprised!
I was in the Army in the late 80\'s and early 90\'s I recall an incident from basic training I would like to share.
One Sunday after noon while we were passing time in the barracks our D.S. came in and was chatting with all of us, the subject turned to war, and how many of us actually thought we would ever go to war while in the Army... a huge show of hands for those of us who did not think we would ever see a war situation. I mean heck after all we were just a bunch of female communications privates, and in the late 80\' the cold war was over is was so long since Vietnam who would believe that war was in our future!!!
Almost exactly to the day 1 year later I got notice that I was going to Saudi Arabia. I deployed in September of 1990.
I guess the moral of my story, in our youth and innocence we never imagined that we would go to war. But, by signing on that line that was the job I had signed up for.
I have no regrets for my service to my country. I did my job as I was ordered. When it came time to reenlist or get out I chose to get out as was my plan when I joined the military. I then used the money I had earned to go to college.
I hate the fact that we are back in Iraq, It breaks my heart. I stopped watching the news a couple of years ago, heck stopped watching TV totally because I would sob every time I heard about the war. I would break down when they would show the troops leaving.
It was almost as bad when they show them coming home (unless you have been there you will never understand that emotion).
Enough of my ramble I will surmise to say I wish with all my heart that there was no war, It is an ugly thing.
But in reality as long as we survive as the human race there will always be disagreement and fighting and war. We will never see a unified world.
Gin
First off, I would love to see a show of hands of folks here who have been in the military?
OK now keep your hand up if you have ever been in a war...
Wow that many! I am surprised!
I was in the Army in the late 80\'s and early 90\'s I recall an incident from basic training I would like to share.
One Sunday after noon while we were passing time in the barracks our D.S. came in and was chatting with all of us, the subject turned to war, and how many of us actually thought we would ever go to war while in the Army... a huge show of hands for those of us who did not think we would ever see a war situation. I mean heck after all we were just a bunch of female communications privates, and in the late 80\' the cold war was over is was so long since Vietnam who would believe that war was in our future!!!
Almost exactly to the day 1 year later I got notice that I was going to Saudi Arabia. I deployed in September of 1990.
I guess the moral of my story, in our youth and innocence we never imagined that we would go to war. But, by signing on that line that was the job I had signed up for.
I have no regrets for my service to my country. I did my job as I was ordered. When it came time to reenlist or get out I chose to get out as was my plan when I joined the military. I then used the money I had earned to go to college.
I hate the fact that we are back in Iraq, It breaks my heart. I stopped watching the news a couple of years ago, heck stopped watching TV totally because I would sob every time I heard about the war. I would break down when they would show the troops leaving.
It was almost as bad when they show them coming home (unless you have been there you will never understand that emotion).
Enough of my ramble I will surmise to say I wish with all my heart that there was no war, It is an ugly thing.
But in reality as long as we survive as the human race there will always be disagreement and fighting and war. We will never see a unified world.
Gin
chrismisterx
New member
I was in the reserves, was never deployed in anger thank god.
ALL my friends are in the army and 2 of them have had to do service in a war zone, left both of them changed men.
Funny enough both have different views, friend 1 had to kill a man, he left the army when his time was up, he no longer belives in war to solve problems and I think he has a few problems about what he did, but like i said to him, it was you or him....
friend 2, didnt see any heavy fighting and thought the whole war zone thing a blast, came back very gun hoe and to be honest a bit of a wanker, thinks strength is the way forward and we should kick arse.
really funny how different people react.
ALL my friends are in the army and 2 of them have had to do service in a war zone, left both of them changed men.
Funny enough both have different views, friend 1 had to kill a man, he left the army when his time was up, he no longer belives in war to solve problems and I think he has a few problems about what he did, but like i said to him, it was you or him....
friend 2, didnt see any heavy fighting and thought the whole war zone thing a blast, came back very gun hoe and to be honest a bit of a wanker, thinks strength is the way forward and we should kick arse.
really funny how different people react.
electrolito 77
New member
Ja... this thread is funny. I love WAR!!! That is why I joined the ARMY!!! Been in 7 years and loving it!!!! Ok, now the civilised answer...
All I have to say is that everone has and is completely entitled to their opinion. I have seen some major points on all of this thread, but still, I believe that it is all about personal preference. Just like everyone here has a different opinion about war, other political leaders have the different opinions about something that eventually in their minds, would be totally worth it to fight over... Wars have an unusual way of teaching all of us lessons, both good and bad. The main problem will always be, that someone out there will always be different, no buts about it. This all creates argument, and in a bigger scale war. It is a beautiful thing, the human mind, so complex ...
Anyway, that is all I can come up with right now, John Kerry was right... I should have ztayed in cullage...:drunk:
All I have to say is that everone has and is completely entitled to their opinion. I have seen some major points on all of this thread, but still, I believe that it is all about personal preference. Just like everyone here has a different opinion about war, other political leaders have the different opinions about something that eventually in their minds, would be totally worth it to fight over... Wars have an unusual way of teaching all of us lessons, both good and bad. The main problem will always be, that someone out there will always be different, no buts about it. This all creates argument, and in a bigger scale war. It is a beautiful thing, the human mind, so complex
... Anyway, that is all I can come up with right now, John Kerry was right... I should have ztayed in cullage...:drunk:
farseerlum
New member
many of the comments so far literally sicken me.
it makes me sad that people with views like that exist. rationalising the death of another human as acceptable on such a scale is disgusting.
it makes me sad that people with views like that exist. rationalising the death of another human as acceptable on such a scale is disgusting.
the alleycat
New member
Look at the demographics of most people who join the military. Then try telling them realistically how much choice many of them had.
VINCENTI CONFESSIONS
Looking back over 20 years at why I joined the British Army I can now say quite simply I was looking for a family.Crazy as it sounds its true,I come from a horrifically dysfunctional family and the Paras offered me a sense of belonging and family, it actually says that in my joining instructions book which I still have;\"Joining the Airborne Foces you are joining a familly\".
Next point, the type of training a unit like the Paras ( or S.A .S, S.B.S, & Commandos), gives means that generally speaking most guys are trained to such incredibly high standards of fitness & military proffessionalism they cant wait to get into combat.
I realize this may seem bizzare but its true,would you want to spend years training to be a teacher & never go into a classroom ? The psychology of it all could fill volumes, the quest for manhood,selfproving,tribe mentallity the list goes on but at the end of the day if you do end up locked up by armed men in a London embassy you want the best the world has to offer to come in & get you out ,at that moment you dont give a fig about there personal motivation or political beliefs
lol lol :beer:
GOD bless ..........VINCENTI
Looking back over 20 years at why I joined the British Army I can now say quite simply I was looking for a family.Crazy as it sounds its true,I come from a horrifically dysfunctional family and the Paras offered me a sense of belonging and family, it actually says that in my joining instructions book which I still have;\"Joining the Airborne Foces you are joining a familly\".
Next point, the type of training a unit like the Paras ( or S.A .S, S.B.S, & Commandos), gives means that generally speaking most guys are trained to such incredibly high standards of fitness & military proffessionalism they cant wait to get into combat.
I realize this may seem bizzare but its true,would you want to spend years training to be a teacher & never go into a classroom ? The psychology of it all could fill volumes, the quest for manhood,selfproving,tribe mentallity the list goes on but at the end of the day if you do end up locked up by armed men in a London embassy you want the best the world has to offer to come in & get you out ,at that moment you dont give a fig about there personal motivation or political beliefs
lol lol :beer:
GOD bless ..........VINCENTI
I was wondering when this argument would come up.
Been listening to John Kerry?
There is no draft, everyone is there by choice.
To say there wasn\'t much of a choice or no choice is a cop out.
Everyone has choices, some may be easy, some may be difficult, but there is always a choice.
I have a friend who was in the Navy for ten years. For ten years he was paid, had room and board, free medical, free dental, got to travel the world and got two bachelors degrees and a masters.
So for serving for ten years of his life, willingly, he now doesn\'t have to pay school loans for the next 20-30 years, and has a military background, which is an impressive feature on a resume.
Seems like a real bad choice doesn\'t it.
But that leaves 2/3 (i.e. most) who didnt...
The question of war is always going to be a difficult one and I think that sadly war is something that is a biproduct of a global community. If we were just small isolated tribes across the globe, the largest a \'war\' would get would be a tribal conflict. But as it is it now involved thousands of people armed with the deadliest weapons that have ever been made.
It is in our nature for mankind to defend his territory, but I think the real issue has to be whether governments go to war with the right intent or whenter they have a different agenda. A bit like the Kyoto protocol, there is a concern that it all revolves around oil...
