War: pros and cons
- Thread starter vincegamer
- Start date
philologus
Subgenius
Originally posted by MarkusTay
The Devil himself can quote the Bible to his own ends
Sadly, this statement has often been applied to me by my fellow Christians.
I don\'t understand?
LOL
Okay, as an example. I was working on a Barber Shop that was owned by one of my church\'s more affluant members, and several members of the congregation were there to bless the new enterprise. A very pretty young woman came in asking about a job. As she left, both I and the barber enjoyed the view as she walked out the door. An older church member noticed, and shook his head disapprovingly.
I said \"It is not my fault I am attracted to woman, God said to go forth and multiply, and I just want to do God\'s work.\" He said \"Only the marriage bed is sacred\". I said \"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone\". He opened his mouth to reply, but my friend the shop owner stopped both of us.
Most of my fellow Christians tend to judge me quite harshly, because of my liberal views; but then I just tell them it is not their place to judge me, only one being may do that.
Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes
There, but for the grace of God, go I
Neither is Biblical quote, but I tend to live my life by them.
I usually fall short of the mark, but does anyone live up to their own standards ALL of the time?
Okay, as an example. I was working on a Barber Shop that was owned by one of my church\'s more affluant members, and several members of the congregation were there to bless the new enterprise. A very pretty young woman came in asking about a job. As she left, both I and the barber enjoyed the view as she walked out the door. An older church member noticed, and shook his head disapprovingly.
I said \"It is not my fault I am attracted to woman, God said to go forth and multiply, and I just want to do God\'s work.\" He said \"Only the marriage bed is sacred\". I said \"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone\". He opened his mouth to reply, but my friend the shop owner stopped both of us.
Most of my fellow Christians tend to judge me quite harshly, because of my liberal views; but then I just tell them it is not their place to judge me, only one being may do that.
Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes
There, but for the grace of God, go I
Neither is Biblical quote, but I tend to live my life by them.
I usually fall short of the mark, but does anyone live up to their own standards ALL of the time?
vincegamer
Active member
The secret to happiness is lowering your standards until they are already met.
- Calvin (not John, the other Calvin)
I think the Bible quote to use is \"judge not, lest ye yourself be judged,\" and if I recall there is another about judgment being the province of the lord.
(it\'s been ages since I read the bible and I no longer own a copy)
- Calvin (not John, the other Calvin)
I think the Bible quote to use is \"judge not, lest ye yourself be judged,\" and if I recall there is another about judgment being the province of the lord.
(it\'s been ages since I read the bible and I no longer own a copy)
OMG! lol
Why is it that when a hear a lawyer quoting scripture I think of that story The Devil and Daniel Webster
Anyhow, good ones Vince.
Why is it that when a hear a lawyer quoting scripture I think of that story The Devil and Daniel Webster
Anyhow, good ones Vince.
vincegamer
Active member
I think some day I might become a judge.
Then I will put that quote on my business cards.
Then I will put that quote on my business cards.
Shawn R. L.
New member
If you walk a mile in another man\'s shoes, then you\'ll be a mile away and now you got his shoes!lol
philologus
Subgenius
@ MarkusTay: If I read it right it sounds like you were attending this church at the time of the incident. Which is likely why the other members responded the way they did. The Bible is clear that we want to attract unbelievers. Those who already believe are supposed to correct each other, especially in the case of men, as the Bible tells us that \"..iron sharpeneth iron\" reminding other believers of their duty to be an example of Christ is entirely proper. It sounds like they assumed your attendance indicated your belief. In the case of non-believers we offer compassion and physical assistance to show the love of Christ.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine
Hmmmmmm....
So, are you agreeing with them? ???
I find women attractive, and I thank God every day that I do. I had a conversation with my gay brother-in-law, and he said when he looked at women he felt NOTHING.
So, since he would NEVER check out a girl, then is he holier then me? lol
I love to look at women... Old women, young women, heavy women and skinny women, women of every race, creed, and color. I would never actual do anything with any of those women because I am married.
Even now, while I am seperated and my wife is already dating I could never consider laying with another woman. However, I feel admiring a beautiful woman is akin to admiring a sunset, or mountain vista; it\'s just appreciation for one of God\'s works.
I mean, I\'m pretty sure he got it right. I certainly am glad woman don\'t look just like us. :|~
Back to war. Even one life is too much to pay for your beliefs. However, if it a matter of choice, PURE choice, then that is a sacrifice and can be forgiven.
A soldier, for instance, is sent into battle, and has a pretty good chance of coming back. It\'s like gambling each time he/she is deployed. She has no say over where she goes, or what she does, he/she is basically just a living weapon. Someone else points them, and they go. In that instance it is the person who is in charge that is in the wrong. I\'m sure given the choice of coming back or dying most of them want to come back.
However, in the case of the brave people who crashed flight 93 that was an individual decision. Those people choose to die to save more lives, and there can be no purer act then that.
So is war right or wrong? It all depends on intent. And not just the spoken intent, but any hidden agendas that may be behind it.
So, are you agreeing with them? ???
I find women attractive, and I thank God every day that I do. I had a conversation with my gay brother-in-law, and he said when he looked at women he felt NOTHING.
So, since he would NEVER check out a girl, then is he holier then me? lol
I love to look at women... Old women, young women, heavy women and skinny women, women of every race, creed, and color. I would never actual do anything with any of those women because I am married.
Even now, while I am seperated and my wife is already dating I could never consider laying with another woman. However, I feel admiring a beautiful woman is akin to admiring a sunset, or mountain vista; it\'s just appreciation for one of God\'s works.
I mean, I\'m pretty sure he got it right. I certainly am glad woman don\'t look just like us. :|~
Back to war. Even one life is too much to pay for your beliefs. However, if it a matter of choice, PURE choice, then that is a sacrifice and can be forgiven.
A soldier, for instance, is sent into battle, and has a pretty good chance of coming back. It\'s like gambling each time he/she is deployed. She has no say over where she goes, or what she does, he/she is basically just a living weapon. Someone else points them, and they go. In that instance it is the person who is in charge that is in the wrong. I\'m sure given the choice of coming back or dying most of them want to come back.
However, in the case of the brave people who crashed flight 93 that was an individual decision. Those people choose to die to save more lives, and there can be no purer act then that.
So is war right or wrong? It all depends on intent. And not just the spoken intent, but any hidden agendas that may be behind it.
farseerlum
New member
it\'s awsome how religion is the main topic in a thread about war.
how\'s about. \"thou shalt not kill\" although i dare say all the religous types can explain how that only applies to the other people.
it is true however that belief that the other person deserves it for \"X\" reason is the rationale given to the masses for war.
rationales are great. it gives the rich a reason to get richer.
how\'s about. \"thou shalt not kill\" although i dare say all the religous types can explain how that only applies to the other people.
it is true however that belief that the other person deserves it for \"X\" reason is the rationale given to the masses for war.
rationales are great. it gives the rich a reason to get richer.
According to some (like scholars of ancient Hebrew) \"Thou shall not Kill\" is actually a mistranslation, it should be \"Thou shall not commit Murder\" which is an entirely different ballpark.Originally posted by farseerlum
it\'s awsome how religion is the main topic in a thread about war.
how\'s about. \"thou shalt not kill\" although i dare say all the religous types can explain how that only applies to the other people.
it is true however that belief that the other person deserves it for \"X\" reason is the rationale given to the masses for war.
rationales are great. it gives the rich a reason to get richer.
However, rationalization is a funny thing. I\'m quite positive that were the circumstances right, even you would kill someone, then rationalize it.
I\'m also quite sure, were your home invaded, you would wish for someone to attack those invading, rationalizing that they needed to be attacked since they were in the wrong.
It seems that people like to use \"rationalizing your actions\" as a snide insult when a particular action goes against their moral code (ironically, a code that has rarely been actually tested in adversity by said person), when in reality we all rationalize decisions we make every day. ie. You rationalize that it is ok to take a chastising tone with those discussing religion, because the thread is about war.
This is not calling you out or insulting you, I am merely showing an example of rationalization, an action that everyone does all the time.
Unless the act is completely random, every act, every decision, has a rational behind it.
The most vocal and well covered of the picketers is a group of parents and relatives of people who insist on stating that their family members in the military either didn\'t know what they were doing, didn\'t want to get into it, or didn\'t want to be in war. Turning an act of selfless service (Which it is no matter what they are doing at the time) into a \"kicking and screaming\" situation.
However I do still think that people really need to stop focusing on why some countries are doing things and focus on what they are doing. If the US goes in to Iraq and overthrows a brutal dictator -who was known to be a brutal dictator for so long that the UN was trying to force their way in to inspect for well over ten years- why are we now argueing about why it happened? They might have done it for oil, they might have done it for pride, but it happened and it\'s one brutal mass-killing dictator less in the world.
Same with the Dafur region in Sudan, where there has been a case of brutal mass murder in a country known for instability, and where anyone who proposes to help out to solve the conflict is immediately accused of trying to get oil....who cares?! If you\'re one of the refugees in Sudan trying to get out and getting shot at, you realyl don\'t give a rat butt if the people rescuing you are there to make oil treaties or just there to kick over rocks. It\'s to the point that only mercanary and private armies are allowed to fight in these conflicts because they can avoid scrutiny about oil (Though the UN makes a big to-do about them fighting for pay).
funnymouth
Active member
so you are criticizing them for caring about their loved ones, and being politically motivated because of it?
Sand Rat
New member
Now to really stir the religious pot here -
Old Testament - to my understanding, with the arrivial of Christ, the old rules and way of doing business with God were thrown out - Christ is the new covenant between God and his Chosen People, so where is it written that the old rules still apply? And if the 10 Commandments still apply, they why do the dietary laws which follow them not apply? To me you cant pick and choose what parts of the rules you are going to apply - either all the old rules are in effect or none of them.
Also there is a very strong belief amoung some scholars that the \"Thou Shall Not Kill/Murder\" prohibition only applied to other Jews, not Gentiles, so exogomas killing was fully sanctioned by God.
Originally posted by farseerlum
it\'s awsome how religion is the main topic in a thread about war.
how\'s about. \"thou shalt not kill\" although i dare say all the religous types can explain how that only applies to the other people.
Old Testament - to my understanding, with the arrivial of Christ, the old rules and way of doing business with God were thrown out - Christ is the new covenant between God and his Chosen People, so where is it written that the old rules still apply? And if the 10 Commandments still apply, they why do the dietary laws which follow them not apply? To me you cant pick and choose what parts of the rules you are going to apply - either all the old rules are in effect or none of them.
Also there is a very strong belief amoung some scholars that the \"Thou Shall Not Kill/Murder\" prohibition only applied to other Jews, not Gentiles, so exogomas killing was fully sanctioned by God.
Sand Rat
New member
Sorry for the double post guys -
I dont know about DW, FM, but what I object to is the fact that these people didnt get politically active until their loved ones were sent into harms way - as long as it wasnt their loved ones having to risk it all the war was fine and dandy - but the miniute it was, oh my god we have to bring the boys back home.
Which leads me into something else - The US Military has sat in Germany and Japan since the 1940\'s and Korea since the 1950\'s - yet you never to my memory saw a great deal of protest in the US kicking and screaming to bring the boys back home from there (even with training deaths and all while in those areas - and with the North Koreans sneaking into South Korea and killing US Service members). But we come here and its all about the oil and money and not about allowing the Iraqis the same benefits that we were willing to give the Germans, Japanese and Koreans. So if we really were only here for profit, why the hell would we still be in those other areas?
paintingploddy
New member
I\'m yet to see anyone claiming that Sudan has rich oil reserves.
And wow, we knocked off a dictator, chalk up one for the good guys. While we\'re at it, lets add up the number of dictators left. Then can we subtract the ones with good relations to the west, either because they are temporarily useful in the War on Terror or they provide some other commodity we use day to day.
And wow, we knocked off a dictator, chalk up one for the good guys. While we\'re at it, lets add up the number of dictators left. Then can we subtract the ones with good relations to the west, either because they are temporarily useful in the War on Terror or they provide some other commodity we use day to day.
paintingploddy
New member
I forgive you Steelcult. Even though I\'d never double post myself.
funnymouth
Active member
well, thats the nature of the beast. people here (in america) dont care about politics (dont vote) until they get kicked in the teeth, until they are forced to realize that people (they care about) might die because of their apathy. im all for it, it stirs the pot, whether they share my political views or not it forces people to re-evaluate what is important. shit, they might even read something.
well, those scenareos are a bit different for a number of reasons (most of which im sure you\'re aware of). this conflict is far more deadly - it is war, kicking and screaming, not a stale conflict decades old (though still dangerous), and its in the news. percieved \"injustice\" fades with time. they dont make a stink, because they dont know about it.
as for why were in those places, well its obveous - they\'re strategic military locations (and therefore also important for economic reasons, the two go hand in hand, after all).
for all the credit you\'re giving to those few parents, i seriously doubt that they are the driving force behind the antiwar movement.
i still dont think there is anything wrong with that position anyhow - i dont think its fair to criticise families for being concerned about their own. if its not ok to get in to politics because you care for a soldier than when is it ok? its easy to send someone you dont know off to die for a war, its much harder when its someone you know. our soldiers need to be protected too, lest we dishonor their willingness to fight for our lives.
Sand Rat
New member
So, we declare the war hot again and do what we should have done in 03? After 2+years here yes, I agree that this is a war and we are doing the same thing we did in Vietnam to an extent - fighting it without really fighting it.
What still amazes me is that in 3 years time we have lost 3,000 lives here and the press and the vocal Anti war movement are all over that - but in 05 there were 16000 Americans murdered without a blip coming up on the news - but hey, Americans killing Americans aint news, is it?
What still amazes me is that in 3 years time we have lost 3,000 lives here and the press and the vocal Anti war movement are all over that - but in 05 there were 16000 Americans murdered without a blip coming up on the news - but hey, Americans killing Americans aint news, is it?
