Water Effects: Who here has used them?

[kathrynloch]

Just curious because I finally got to use mine. Picked up a little box from Woodland Scenics called Scenearama. It's small versions of supplies for dioramas so you can try them out, only about $10 bucks and you get enough stuff to last awhile.

Here's what I got so far.

View attachment 7686

The bottom right pic is my base. I first followed the instructions for "waterfall" I just wanted a small stream running down the rock. It said to use the non-stick paper, put the water effects on it, feather with toothpick and let dry, then stick it on with some more water effects and press it down into the base.

Well the first thing I noticed was the effects part looks suspiciously like thick PVA glue or thin paste, see the pic of the base - I just applied the effects so they are still wet. The second thing I noticed was the non-stick paper. If you've ever bought a pack of stickers, peeled one off and looked at the paper backing, this stuff is exactly like it. But I did what it said and when dry peeled the stuff off. That's the pick on the lower left. Are we sure this isn't PVA glue? Maybe a little clearer than the standard stuff, but it's a lot like it.

I tried applying it to the base sorta testing where I wanted it, so not using the effects to glue it down. I wanted to see how it looked in certain spots. It looks like I wadded up cellophane and stuck it on there. *sigh* You can see it draped over the edge of the base in the pic. So I nixed that idea and grabbed the Water Effects, this time applying it straight to the base as you see above.

It's drying now, much of it is turning clear. So, I'll have to wait to see how clear it gets. The thicker it is, the more cloudy it dries but in my first pieces, even some really thick stuff didn't dry that opaque.

The box comes with Realistic Water, Water Effects, Water Base Color, non-stick paper, a craft stick and a sponge brush. But I swear it's actually, water soluble clear gloss, thick PVA glue, dark paint, and paper from a bunch of stickers.

Next time I'm trying my own PVA glue, high gloss acrylic, I'm going to spend a quarter and get some stickers out of one of those little machines and use the paper, and if I have to, I'll even try some Seran-wrap. lol!

The Snow Effects one is just about the same. Flocking is what makes the snow, mix it with PVA glue and you have your snow base. So all I have to buy there is the flocking. The ice effects are once again, thick acrylic gloss.

So, what was your experience with this stuff?

 

[khavor]

I've never used the water effects, but I've used the realistic water several times. Mixed results for sure. I did this river / waterfall with it:

I used the same technique you're talking about; spreading it out on a non-stick surface, then cutting it to shape after it dries and draping it over the rocks. But then I poured the Realistic water over the water fall and into the river bed. I've also used it to quite good effect on bases, by just painting it onto a flat area of the base. You can do water flowing out of pipes by starting with a thin strip of clear plastic and painting multiple layers over to get the look of water running out.

But, I'd have to agree that if you could find a good high gloss varnish it would probably work better in the long run. In my experience the Realistic water never fully dries, so if anything falls on your water and lays there it eventually sticks, even dust and flock, so after a while you loose the nice high gloss surface.

 

[kathrynloch]

That looks really nice Khavor! Well, mine is drying and it's looking worse and worse. I have one or two more things to try and if that doesn't work I'm stripping the base. First, I'll try as you suggested and use realistic water with a brush. If that works, I can add my little bits of extra plastic over the top and see how it goes.

 

[khavor]

Would be a shame to have to strip the base. It looks really good if you can get the water to work; a nice little mountain stream tumbling down a hill. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

 

[kathrynloch]

Thanks Khavor. Luckily, I documented it pretty well in my WIP thread. So if I do have to strip it, I've got the step by step of how to re-create it. lol!

 

[crystella333]

Tbh, I've never had a good effect for what I want it to look like in the long run anyway. one thing I have used is Crafter's Pick Brush strokes gloss finish, put it on in coats but then take a stiffer brush to it to make it seem like water running. Its not as runny as PvA glue or as dull as some other things.
Here you go
http://www.fredaldous.co.uk/crafters-brush-strokes-118ml.html

 

[kathrynloch]

hmmm...I have heavy modeling paste that's basically the same thing....hmmmm...more ideas to try. Thank you Crys!

 

[TrystanGST]

I have some of the Water Effects on hand, although I haven't tried it yet. I am definitely interested to see how your experiments play out.

 

[kathrynloch]

Well, there's two different ones. The first is Realistic Water which is clear and used for ponds and the base of rivers. The second is Water Effects which looks like the thick PVA glue or thin paste. It's for rapids and waterfalls and stuff.

As the Water Effects dried on the base, it looked really bad. I added Realistic Water and it went from bad to meh....

Now, I'm going to experiment with a couple of things first before I tried putting anything else on there and will report back.

 

[TrystanGST]

I know - I have the water effects in the bottle. The elmers glue one. And I was going to use it to make saliva strings. But maybe not now. Hmm...

 

[Dragonsreach]

I first followed the instructions for "waterfall" I just wanted a small stream running down the rock. It said to use the non-stick paper, put the water effects on it, feather with toothpick and let dry, then stick it on with some more water effects and press it down into the base.
Yep that's the "easy bit" the rest is patience and practise.

Well the first thing I noticed was the effects part looks suspiciously like thick PVA glue or thin paste, see the pic of the base - I just applied the effects so they are still wet. The second thing I noticed was the non-stick paper. If you've ever bought a pack of stickers, peeled one off and looked at the paper backing, this stuff is exactly like it. But I did what it said and when dry peeled the stuff off. That's the pick on the lower left. Are we sure this isn't PVA glue? Maybe a little clearer than the standard stuff, but it's a lot like it.
I tried applying it to the base sorta testing where I wanted it, so not using the effects to glue it down. I wanted to see how it looked in certain spots. It looks like I wadded up cellophane and stuck it on there. *sigh* You can see it draped over the edge of the base in the pic. So I nixed that idea and grabbed the Water Effects, this time applying it straight to the base as you see above.

It's drying now, much of it is turning clear. So, I'll have to wait to see how clear it gets. The thicker it is, the more cloudy it dries but in my first pieces, even some really thick stuff didn't dry that opaque..
The box comes with Realistic Water, Water Effects, Water Base Color, non-stick paper, a craft stick and a sponge brush. But I swear it's actually, water soluble clear gloss, thick PVA glue, dark paint, and paper from a bunch of stickers.
Next time I'm trying my own PVA glue, high gloss acrylic, I'm going to spend a quarter and get some stickers out of one of those little machines and use the paper, and if I have to, I'll even try some Seran-wrap. lol!

The Snow Effects one is just about the same. Flocking is what makes the snow, mix it with PVA glue and you have your snow base. So all I have to buy there is the flocking. The ice effects are once again, thick acrylic gloss.

So, what was your experience with this stuff?
Mostly good, once I learned a couple of tricks.

It initially looks a lot like PVA when wet but I've used this stuff from Woodland scenics and you need to exercise caution and not apply the main liquid in more than 1/8" depth. Otherwise it does go cloudy as it's not drying evenly. (B.T.D.T.G.T.T.S.)
I've found that over here in the UK it takes between 18-24 hours to set up properly, after that then its workable for a second layer if needed.
As with all things it takes practise to learn the pitfalls, for example Cork (Tile and Bark) loves this stuff and drinks it up like it's going out of production. even when you've painted the cork.
It shrinks around items placed in it forming a strong meniscus, so as before use lots of thin layers to build up.
I tend to use coffee stirrers, donated by Starbucks, to place the Water Effects in to a base rather than risk pouring and over loading.
Oh and a pin in a stick is really helpful to remove air bubbles.
I suppose that the real trick is thta the colour of the item you are placing the water on needs to look right. A Clear Crystal stream, is mostly going to be up in higher country and be either rain water run off or Glacial Melt. Further down then the water is going to pick up particulates of Peat, Mud, Sticks, Animal droppings, the occasional dead sheep and countless bugs, so it's not Crystal Clear.

While a lot of people suggest PVA for the snow flock, I've found that a small egg cup and a drop or two of the water effect mixed into the woodland scenic snow makes for a better and deeper snow effect. It looks like deeply piled fresh snow when dry.

 

[Dragonsreach]

I know - I have the water effects in the bottle. The elmers glue one. And I was going to use it to make saliva strings. But maybe not now. Hmm...

Why?
Every seen tallow candles being made?
Use the same principle to make saliva strings.
Just use a long straight head hair, dip in attach to sticky tape and place somewhere were it can hang vertically to dry. Voila, stringy dribbles.

 

[kathrynloch]

Well, in for a penny, in for a pound. I tried once again to see how my "pre-made" water effects would look since I applied the Realistic Water. (Don't worry, DR, on top of the rocks, there was no way I could get it over 1/8 inch thick without flooding off the base. lol!) The problem was, I couldn't really tell because I need to stick them on there with more Water Effects and press them into place. Without that, they just sorta spring straight again.

Since I already had so much product on the base, I decided to go ahead and dive in. If this doesn't work, I'm definitely going to have to strip it. lol! But while I can already spot one or two problem areas, there may be hope for it. Water chucking down a rocky slope sorta burbbles along and it can bounce around as it hits rocks and debris (While I agree with you DR that as it descends, it picks up more debris, this action with hitting rocks and movement actually cleans it too.) So that's a bit of the effect I went for. I'm watching this stuff set up and carefully taking a toothpick and pulling some of the places with "depth" in certain directions as it gets thicker. It seems to me I'm getting a wee bit more of a 3D effect but we'll have to see how it goes. I'll take pics when it's cured.

 

[TrystanGST]

Why?
Every seen tallow candles being made?
Use the same principle to make saliva strings.
Just use a long straight head hair, dip in attach to sticky tape and place somewhere were it can hang vertically to dry. Voila, stringy dribbles.

I haven't seen how candles are made, but I'm definitely going to try the hair trick!

 

[Dragonsreach]

Water chucking down a rocky slope sorta burbbles along and it can bounce around as it hits rocks and debris (While I agree with you DR that as it descends, it picks up more debris, this action with hitting rocks and movement actually cleans it too.) So that's a bit of the effect I went for.

Thats true in the US & Canada.
Over in the UK, hill walking in the Lake District (Cumbria) & Scotland, means that I've found waaaay too many dead critters in streams, to ever use the water without:-
A) Boiling It,
B) Filtering It, (Other scout leaders used to wonder why my 'emergency pack' contained Tights (Pantyhose),Coffee filters, wire and bamboo skewers.)
C) Boiling it,
d) Being Really Flaming Desparate.

Last time I used "Sterilising Tablets" in my water bottle I couldn't get the taste of Iodine out of my mouth for a week.

But back to business at hand, I'm trying to remember what I glued the "splashy bits"to the water with.
BUT one thing I forgot to mention before is that Vallejo make a thick Water paint.
Essentially its really dense white paint which you cabn use to drybrush over water effects to get an 'aeriated look' to the water.
Like the bottom of the picture here.
View attachment 7705

This is a typical Yorkshire river after running through the Dales, hence the colour.

 

[mud duck]

Oh, My, God! A beer waterfall....

 

[Alexandra]

Hi!!

I don't know if anybody already tried crystal polyester resin to do the water effect....

It comes in two components, so if you mix just 2% of the accelerant, you can work it for a long time before it begins to cure. You can also mix it with "vitral" paint for clear color or ceramic paints for opaque effects. If use in thin layers, you can do great details with it, especially waterfalls- just let it get thick and apply it with a toothpick.

The downside is that it smells a lot and can't be apply over unprotected foam and it's a pain if you get it on your hands. I usually use concentrated dishwasher on my hands for protection and also as a release agent...

When the surface stays sticky, either for excess of release agent or wrong quantity of accelerant, I usually rub it with acetone ( it make the surface to finish cure ) and then apply a layer of shiny sealant.

Just a thought

Cheers!

 

[DarkStar]

I've used the water effects off an on for the last 8 years (when I bought the bottle). Same experience mentioned here in this thread, takes a day or two to dry, good for mixing with snow effects, need to work it thin or it takes ages to set up etc...

I only use water effects for the main reasons it says on the bottle to use it nowadays. That being to create ripples and splashes on the surface of water. The water having been first poured from Envirotex and let to cure. The water effects then get applied and manipulated with a brush to place the surface features of the water where I want them, and thanks to the long drying time you can really finesse the stuff as it dries and make some good ripples that way. When it dries clear it really looks like surface action on the water. To get the 'whitewater' effect I cap the water effects with matte medium mixed with white paint for the thin stuff, then for thicker 'foam' if I need it, I use a product called Sno-Tex from Decoart, which is sticky gluey mass of white that dries rock hard and has a nice foamy texture when watered down a bit.

 

[kathrynloch]

Well, just got home frome work about an hour or two ago, here's what it looks like now.

Still looks like wadded up cellophane.

I don't know...maybe throw some paint on it? Feather the edges?

 

[DarkStar]

Needs some whitecaps I'd say to sell the effect of rushing water. I mentioned how I go about it in the post up there, but there's so many ways. If you mix up the stuff you end up using as white "foam" effect, and stir it vigorously you can get some interesting foamy/frothy bubbles to appear which looks pretty nice. Test some things like mixing baking soda with PVA, white paint with PVA or even water effects, matte medium with white ink etc...the sky's (or rather the water's) the limit to how you can approach that effect.

Almost forgot to say, it's all about the placement of that effect to really give the impression of rapid flowing/splashy water. Examples are everywhere on the net (model railroad sites especially) of great places to place your whitewater. Usually around areas of blockage and debris, flowing in the direction that the water is meant to be flowing, to give the effect that the foam is gathering up on the blockage, and trailing downstream from there.