What is a Gaming Table Quality Paint job - Level 5 on the Vote Rating? Changes are Needed!

[snowdog]

Table top....

Kev d,

i\'ll say this:
if the shoe fits wear it. some people are able to divorce themselves from thier awesome talents, many can not. those who can\'t wear it on their sleeve. it\'s all in the taking yourself a bit too serioulsy.

my last rtt is a perfect example. i can be a paint snob to them but not here. i think you missed the point.

gamers and competitive painters will always have a different opinion on whats up to snuff.
G~

 

[ZaPhOd]

Bah

It\'s not what\'s up to snuff at all. The difference between a drybrushed tabletop masterpiece and a GD winning masterpiece is realistically obvious to anyone. To argue differently is silly.

However, what is up to snuff for the individual purposes is totally different. I think this site represents what is up to snuff for GD quality stuff. If I wanna look at awesome drybrushed tabletop snuff, I will look at my old minis from years ago...

I have been to a Grand Tournament now, but not a GD. I suspect however, that there would be an OBVIOUS level of quality difference between the two \"competitions\" as far as painting quality goes. I mean there were a few nicely painted pieces, but nothing anywhere near GD quality. So almost everythign would be a 5 in my book. The odd piece maybe might get to a 7 or maybe an 8. GD? Well that is a different story. If it is the same quality as the army stuff? It shouldn\'t even be there...

Rifts between gamers and painters are not only silly, but annoying. I don\'t game I paint. I have more time to paint. I paint single figures as opposed to army. I have the TIME to try to do awesome paint jobs... a gamer may not.

It is not being snobby either. Just different goals, ideas and uses...

 

[RHerneson]

The basics

I\'m going to come down with Zaphod on this one. There is a difference and some simple study will show it.

But what is a 5, what is tabletop?

We joke at my FLGS that a table top inspection is one at arms length, a sale quality one is at nose length, but it’s easier than that really.

A 5 should;

- Be clean of mold lines
- Have shipping bends straightened
- Have any obvious gaps between assembled pieces filled with putty
- Be evenly covered in paint (no unintentional bare metal)
- Attempt a reasonable combination of colors or color scheme
- Show at least basic 1 pass wash and/or drybrushing
- Proper sized basing
- Basic cleaning and minimal effort made to base the fig. (flock or whatever)

That\'s it. Those are the basics people, the things anyone can do.
I\'ve handed out a few 4s and a 3 or two. It was because the person didn\'t do one or more of the things above.

Once you get the basics, then you learn advanced wash & drybrush techniques, advanced basing, blending, NMN, and so on. Those are the things that get you 6+ and when you get really good at them you don\'t even have to think about the basics, they are instinct, and it shows.

RH

 

[snowdog]

Table Top....

kev,
again, if the shoe fits good sir. many, many great painters on this site have took time offering suggestions on improvement to even those such as myself.

in the same breath, i\'ve seen \"A FEW\" ( not all as you suggested ) snobby painters leave \"revenge\" type feedback on mini\'s that are obviously above tabletop quality. welcome the snob.....

G~

 

[Flashman14]

Maybe a 5 point scale is the best instead of a 10 point one. The difference between a 2 and a 3 is not particularly pronounced nor, for me, an 8 or a 9.

So if we were to adopt say the Amazon style of voting - there would be a \"no stars\" to indicate zero artisitic or practical worth.

1 and 2 would be less than average by degree.

3 would be average

4 would be significantly better than average (however you want to define it)

then 5 would be the peak achievement.

I think there would be a more uniform judgement using this style - it provides less room for a variety of opinions.

But the real answer, I think, is to leave it all alone - if anything allow votes on the half points so I can give a 6.5 or a 8.5 if I want to ...

 

[kevd82]

Originally posted by snowdog
kev,
again, if the shoe fits good sir. many, many great painters on this site have took time offering suggestions on improvement to even those such as myself.

in the same breath, i\'ve seen \"A FEW\" ( not all as you suggested ) snobby painters leave \"revenge\" type feedback on mini\'s that are obviously above tabletop quality. welcome the snob.....

G~

Snowdog, I am sure you are right. I wasn\'t really complaining or arguing, I just noticed that the word snobby was attached to \"painter\" but never to \"gamer\", which implied to me that gamers aren\'t snobby but all painters are. You make a good point, and I\'m sure there are more snobby painters out there than gamers. Just comes down to different perspectives I guess. But you are right, I see some pointless comments that are just plain rude and belittling.

Anyway, like I said, I was just talking about your wording not so much the point being made. Obviously I had too much free time that day.... lol

 

[finn17]

Heh..

Gamers wouldn\'t be snobby, they\'d be beardy

Kev, I\'m glad to see it\'s not just my comments you take as personal affronts. Must be all that barbarian blood

 

[atacam]

My ranking has also gone down from 142 to 199.

Think yourself lucky there Kat. I got through to the demon final cuts in all the categries I entered this year, but am still only ranked 379! But thats the way it goes.

I do agree with the voting, some minis should be higher, but saying that it\'s not worth losing sleep over. The thing I take notice of is the comments. These people have really taken the time to look at the mini(s) and form an opinion to help the painter, letting him/her know all their hard work is appreciated. Of course you are always going to get petty people voting yours down cause they think their Wolfen is better than yours or they have a personal thing against you or that mini range/race. It happens. Just move on, as long as you are happy with your stuff then thats the main thing. Do what I do, look through the minis and vote on them as honest as possible and comment on the ones that really catch your eye good/bad.

 

[Aschul]

I never vote less than 4.

Personally I think that the voting system is okay the way it is. It\'s very rare for me to see a mini and think \"that should really be rated much higher.\"

I never vote less than a 4 though. Let\'s face it: is it really worth thinking about what the difference between a 1 and a 4 is? Neither is good. To me, a 4 is if the mini or the photo actually has some sort of problems or is just very ugly. A 5 is painted in the most ordinary way.

I sort of like the fact that the voting is a bit harsh. It gives you something to work towards, it gives you motivation to improve.

 

[Grizzix]

Scores Vs. Comments

i think the voting system should be set up so you can\'t vote without commenting. nothing burns my :moon: more than seeing 50 plus votes and no comments. besides my rating isnt going to help me improve my skills. only comments can do that. just my two brush strokes.

 

[kevd82]

Originally posted by finn17
Kev, I\'m glad to see it\'s not just my comments you take as personal affronts. Must be all that barbarian blood

LOL - I just about spit out my diet coke laughing at that! Wait, diet coke isn\'t very barbaric... I mean mead, yeah that\'s it....

Hey, walking around with this huge axe on my shoulder must make me mouthy while leaving plenty of room for a chip on the other shoulder
lol

 

[finn17]

No one would vote....

Originally posted by Grizzix
i think the voting system should be set up so you can\'t vote without commenting.

When you think about the most important vote you make, to decide upon a new government/President/PM etc you just stick a cross in a box. If you had to write a 500 word critique of why you are voting the way you are, no one would be arsed to bother. Democracy would then be hi-jacked by fanatics and people with the most friends.
Although this site is a great learning tool, that isn\'t why it\'s here. It isn\'t overtly about helping people improve their painting skills, although that is a fortunate side effect. If people couldn\'t vote without posting a comment then they would just bother with their mates, their heroes and those people they didn\'t like.

 

[ZaPhOd]

Demon Schmemon

I see a lot of folks complain because they either entered the demons and made a cut, or simply entered the demons... You have to remember that a heck of a lot of painters on this site have never entered the demons. Unless you actually win from what I have seen, it doesn\'t make any difference. And why should it really? The other factor, as for example Kat\'s stuff, is that it may well have made a cut, but the pics are too bad to show anything off anyhow. Alas, it is the same story again and again.

Also, changing to a 5 scale is even worse IMO. The now defunct \"Golden Demon\" site was an example of this... Silyl voting system, and silly scores... The problems with voting inconsistency would surely increase

 

[finn17]

Laugh...

Originally posted by kevd82
LOL - I just about spit out my diet coke laughing at that! Wait, diet coke isn\'t very barbaric... I mean mead, yeah that\'s it....
lol

For really funny barbarian-related larfs, check this site out...if you haven\'t already done so...

http://www.carlcritchlow.com/Thrud1.html

 

[tsnake]

dirt

This discussion comes by ever so often... I even started it either here or on yahoo before.. I forget.
Sad thing.. I don\'t care anymore. Fact is, there are too many jagoffs here. I read someone comment \"I don\'t wanna see table top quality\". Give me a break. Painters come in all skill levels and an attitude like that can only belong to an a55hole.

I\'m sick of seeing people who actually leave comments only state why they bothered to give crappy a rating instead of giving ideas on what might make something better. Pretty LAZY if you ask me, and useless. I WILL give credit for posting comments at all though.

Saddly, the people I concider \"dirt\" here just way outnumber the super cool and honest people. There really are a lot of compassionate and constructive members of this community.

On a scale of 1-10, anyone who actually rates a lot of minis should easily find a majority of their votes in the 5-6 range, instead of what sometimes seems to be an inverse bell curve.

Chris (expecting to see my ratings go down now because some people can only dish out a beating and cannot take it, and by some of the comments I see here, they are proud to no end of it all)

 

[DennisMech]

I wasn\'t going to get involved...

Oh well, can\'t avoid the complaining topics forever

I honestly come to see minis that I enjoy looking at and learning from. I like to be inspired by the stuff I see. I used to get really sick of actualy getting excited when I happen to see a cool mini on the site. So, I just set it to show the minis of a rating of 7 or up. I know, I should be helping out the painters who arn\'t that great, but what can i tell them that will help them? Saying \"you need to highlight more smoothly\" isn\'t really going to help. In my opinion, the best way to learn that early stuff is in real life.

 

[No Such Agency]

Please, tsnake, don\'t hold back - tell us what you REALLY feel lol

\"Tabletop quality\" to me means you wouldn\'t be ashamed to field it against opponents who aren\'t already your good friends. Sadly, this idea is not helpful for voting here (I would consider 5.5-6 to be my personal minimum tabletop standard - if I was a gamer!) so I try and vote by the de facto community standards we seem to have established here (i.e. 5=neatly painted, some shading, some basing, generally doesn\'t look like ass). I do think browsing at 7+ is a mistake, there are some really interesting minis on this site which score between 5-6 *cough including some of mine cough cough*. Though recent events make me want to browse at 4+ at least

 

[kevd82]

Originally posted by No Such Agency
Though recent events make me want to browse at 4+ at least

lol yes, \"painfully bad\" recent events make me want to do that as well lol

 

[DennisMech]

Originally posted by kevd82

Originally posted by No Such Agency
Though recent events make me want to browse at 4+ at least

lol yes, \"painfully bad\" recent events make me want to do that as well lol

Yes, I\'ve spent today wading through the submissions of our young friend FinWolf...

 

[kevd82]

Well, let\'s hope he is thick-skinned and learns. Hopefully he will get some helpful comments.