What is a Gaming Table Quality Paint job - Level 5 on the Vote Rating? Changes are Needed!

[farseerlum]

Fact is, there are too many jagoffs here. I read someone comment \"I don\'t wanna see table top quality\". Give me a break. Painters come in all skill levels and an attitude like that can only belong to an a55hole.

yeah nice that is. well being the asshole jagoff i think it\'s real nice that your 15 post contribution is all help in the painting section.

do you really think people come here just to rate minis with a score of 5 or less?
if so i think you are deluded.
people come to see the kicking jobs done.
anyone come here to see primed minis?
no?

and just for the record a quick check revels that i have voted on some of your minis and each vote was either 1 or 2 points higher than the average score you got. so don\'t be blaming me for your problem.

i really don\'t know how you got from \"doesn\'t want to see ordinary\" to \"i hate crappy paintjobs you suxxors\"
probably lack of thinking before voting.
i think you can dish it out because you are just not mature enough to worry about the consequences. pull your head in mr. 14 helpfull 1 you suxxors poster.

edit
a quick search shows my last statement should read
\"pull your head in Mr. 1 helpfull and 14 you suxxors poster\"
sorry for the inaccuracy.

 

[farseerlum]

on a slightly different note this is me on my harshest day ever.

bad comment
because i knew this was somewhere

now i know this guy could use some help and if he is interested i will give him some advice.
was i nasty, yeah, i didn\'t mean to be i was just funnin. until i saw that he had 4 pics of the same orc.
it just bugs me. it bugs me even when it\'s a golden deamon winner.
he also has the \"another mini\" disease that also bugs me.

i didn\'t actually vote on the second one.

if you want respect and an honest opinion of your work don\'t insult people with a barrage of the same mini!

don\'t disrespect people by posting inferior pics.
don\'t disrespect people by not being assed enough to name them. (do it in french or whatever if you can\'t speak english)

don\'t be uspet by what you get if you treat people like automated scoring machines.

 

[kittykat23uk]

Originally posted by ZaPhOd
I see a lot of folks complain because they either entered the demons and made a cut, or simply entered the demons... You have to remember that a heck of a lot of painters on this site have never entered the demons. Unless you actually win from what I have seen, it doesn\'t make any difference. And why should it really? The other factor, as for example Kat\'s stuff, is that it may well have made a cut, but the pics are too bad to show anything off anyhow. Alas, it is the same story again and again.

Thanks Glyn that makes me feel soo much better!! The pics are never as good as I want them to be (the camera is the best one I could afford and even then that was £200 or so - it\'s not really poor), but to say that they are \"too bad to show anything off anyhow\" isn\'t fair IMHO.

Besides, that wasn\'t what I was getting at. When I first started posting on this site a year or two ago, I was just getting used to my digicam and the pics as they were then were not of the greatest quality. Having said that, I was still getting quite a few comments rating the minis in the 7 to 10 range.

Now, I have spent a lot of time re photographing my older models, trying to get better pics and learning the best size to compress them to in order to post here. This has resulted in much better quality pictures (according to a lot of people here). The ratings on these reposted models saw a significant increase in points value.

However, since my most recent posts, i.e the new wolfen diorama and the temple guard, I have been seeing less comments on them and those that I do receive are often rating my minis harsher than I would have expected.

What I had expected was for these new models to show a significant step forwards in their scores, based on the fact that the pictures are clearer than previous ones and also based on my belief that I have improved significantly in terms of my painting skill (as several people who I have spoken to at the UK GD have told me is the case).

As this expectation has clearly not been substantiated in practice, I can only conclude that the judging here is getting harsher and not just on the paintjob but overall picture quality expectations. Like I said before, it\'s not just me either, there are a lot of this year\'s UK demon winners here that are scored harshly in my opinion. And remember the description of the ratings: a 10 is supposed to be \"Golden Demon winning quality\"- but a lot don\'t even make it past the 7s or 8s. Plus I think most competitiors will agree that the UK is still the event to attend and everyone I spoke to there said that it was at least twice as difficult to win due to the number of high quality entrants there were this year compared to last year. Therefore, making first cut is not something that shouldn\'t mean anything. It is a great achievement in itself and one that I am very proud of.

I\'m sorry, I\'m not being snobby or anything, but I need to see that I am making progress with my work. I really value the comments I receive here on CMON and I am trying to address the bad points raised in my most recent batch of minis, both painting wise and photograpy wise. Also, as I am trying to compete at an international level, bearing in mind we get the best painters from the UK, Europe and even the States at the UK event, (not something that everyone wants to do) it is important to try and get consistent feedback, which is why I start to worry when new stuff I post doesn\'t do as well as I had hoped.

Anyway, thats how I feel right now.

Regards

Kat

 

[farseerlum]

which is why you shouldn\'t look to the score for guidance.

i think you do the best thing which is to use the feedback from the forums. at least you get a reply that you can use objectively.

the fact is everyone knows the scores are only ballpark \"what people like\" anyone getting all banged out of shape because it isn\'t formula it asking for a bruised ego.

cheer up kittykat your work is moving forward! of that there is no doubt.

 

[kittykat23uk]

Thanks,

I need a bit of cheering up at the moment! Never mind, off to see Return of the King this evening!

Regards

Kat

 

[ZaPhOd]

Originally posted by farseerlum
on a slightly different note this is me on my harshest day ever.

bad comment
because i knew this was somewhere

now i know this guy could use some help and if he is interested i will give him some advice.
was i nasty, yeah, i didn\'t mean to be i was just funnin. until i saw that he had 4 pics of the same orc.
it just bugs me. it bugs me even when it\'s a golden deamon winner.
he also has the \"another mini\" disease that also bugs me.

Yes, I would have done the exact same thing myself to be honest. I mean it coul dbe a young kid, or maybe a simple adult, or maybe just someone who has no ettiquette at all. Doesn\'t matter really. I know when I first found the internet, I wanted to show off 12 views of my crappy minis too (not insinuating that that orc has a crappy butt), but I VERY QUICKLY learned to fight that urge. Free web space is easy to find, and Yeehaw Photo albums are even easier! Heck post all 12 views of \"Another Crappy Orc\" there... Pick the best and offer it up here for ideas and sharing...

Maybe I possess a relatively godlike amount of common sense in this regard, but then again, maybe I am just average...

 

[ZaPhOd]

Originally posted by kittykat23ukHowever, since my most recent posts, i.e the new wolfen diorama and the temple guard, I have been seeing less comments on them and those that I do receive are often rating my minis harsher than I would have expected.

This is a DIRECT result of the algorithm that shows new posts with less than 50 votes much more frequently. This allows all of the asshead snipers to hit you hard and all of a sudden, you are at .5 to 1 lower than you expected, with 50 votes, and your mini disappears into the void of other \"old\" minis and never gets comments from all the good folks that used to simply because they never get to see them. (CHERN HELP)

 

[Caelithar]

Hiya\'s

My take on this , being fairly new here .

I see a lot of votes that say things like \" I would have given a 10 but I hate this particular figure so I am marking it down 2 to give a total of 8\" . What!!! thats like saying , I will give it a 10 but I am so lazy I can\'t be bothered to scroll up to a 10 , 8 is as far as I am willing to push this mouse because it will fall of my mouse mat .
Then there is those totally crappy figures that are getting 1\'s and 2\'s and some people come along and give them 10\'s for having the balls to post them .
I dont thing a 5 scale would work properly , I envision seeing a lot of 4\'s and 5\'s , which does\'nt really equate on a 10 scale , for me anyway . I do like the sound of a .5 being added , I have often seen posts giving say 8 but would be 8.5 if they could etc .
Not score related , but I also hate \"another mini\" this completely screws the search function up . I also think it would be nice not only to name the figure but too say a little something about it too . Same for marking , I think anonymous votes should go , if you are voting , then say something about the mini \" why it is good \" \" why it is bad \" and \" how to improve \" , although not sure how much more bandwidth etc that will take up .
Anyway I am just rattling on , time to stop

 

[ZaPhOd]

Originally posted by Caelithar
Hiya\'s

My take on this , being fairly new here .

I see a lot of votes that say things like \" I would have given a 10 but I hate this particular figure so I am marking it down 2 to give a total of 8\" . What!!! thats like saying , I will give it a 10 but I am so lazy I can\'t be bothered to scroll up to a 10 , 8 is as far as I am willing to push this mouse because it will fall of my mouse mat .

This is totally valid IMO. Since the site is intended to be \"Cool\"miniornot, if I do not like a model, I give less points. Sometimes, a model is painted average but extremely cool to me, so I give an extra point or two. For example, I hate Fiannas... They are ridiculous sculpts (IMHO) and the slablike weapons they heave around are only rivalled by the size of their er... anyways, 1 point off for being a Fianna. Period. Just me.... Is it wrong to dislike certain sculpts or minis? I don\'t think so. Since your vote is DIRECTLY related to what you think of the mini as well as the paintjob, this is entirely valid!

 

[GunjiNoKanrei]

I think forcing people to leave a comment to vote is not a good thing. Well, theoretically it is but in reality I think many people would either stop voting or just flood miniatures with comments like \"Wow\", \"Nice work\", \"Not good\", ... and similar short statements

 

[No Such Agency]

This is a DIRECT result of the algorithm that shows new posts with less than 50 votes much more frequently. This allows all of the asshead snipers to hit you hard and all of a sudden, you are at .5 to 1 lower than you expected...

Yeah, but the \"asshead snipers\" can just as easily browse the most recent minis and snipe the ones with low #s of votes, without the new algorithm. I do agree that it causes older minis to be viewed much less often, especially on days when many pics are posted. But with 24,000 pics on the site, that\'s bound to happen anyway.

 

[snowdog]

Table Top

Finn,
you must be from our group, perhaps it\'s a secret identity thing here in the states.........lol
we\'ve got snobby painters and beardy gamers, you seem to know our group well lol

kev and glyn, certain people go overboard when rating a mini, a revenge factor if you will.

www.coolminiornot.com/pics/img3d87c5bcaae91.jpg

i would suspect easily above 5 but revenge was aparently needed as he didn\'t like what i saif about his mini. he\'d since pulled his in question.

look at farsellum\'s link, his not so nice thread. this type of stuff would have been pulled from the pic and gotten some of us moderated.

so i could have said \"some snobby\" painters, never intending to include all quailty painters as snobs.


G~

 

[ZaPhOd]

Revenge

You have to keep in mind that a lot of times, an impulsive response to someone else\'s comment or a slight misunderstanding can also lead to this (like your example which I remember and REGRET personally). With the internet, there is no real accountablility for anything. This can lead to silly things in the end. I know on occasion I have been guilty of early morning rebuttals that are entirely unnessecary. In the end, it all goes out with the garbage anyhow. I personally vow to be more understanding with comments, as I recognise my instinctive response mechanism, and I don\'t always like it

 

[kevd82]

Wow, this thread got nasty awfully suddenly....

Anyway, I have commented on these things before, but again - there are no rules here saying you cannot post 202 pictures of a miniature or that you must name your figures. Although both these things annoy me just as much as the rest of you, unless new people have some way of knowing that these things are considered bad etiquette by most of us, they will continue to do this. Giving them a lower score due to a non-painting related issue seems unfair to me. Perhaps someone who is sufficiently annoyed by the naming issue can write up a \"CMON etiquette\" article. Perhaps the rest of us can offer up some suggestions for what should be included in the article. Maybe it could even be linked to in the welcome email people get when registering for the site (actually, its been so long I dont remember if you actually do get one, im just assuming here). Thoughts?

 

[Trevor]

I\'ve given up worrying about the votes, my tabletop gaming minis are all scoring 6-7\'s whilst my display peices anything from a 4.8 :wow: to low 8\'s

My most recent submission is languishing in the high 6\'s and I thought he was quite good. Oh well, will just have to do better next time...

 

[Avicenna]

My tuppenceworth

Originally posted by kittykat23uk
And remember the description of the ratings: a 10 is supposed to be \"Golden Demon winning quality\"- but a lot don\'t even make it past the 7s or 8s. Plus I think most competitiors will agree that the UK is still the event to attend and everyone I spoke to there said that it was at least twice as difficult to win due to the number of high quality entrants there were this year compared to last year. Therefore, making first cut is not something that shouldn\'t mean anything. It is a great achievement in itself and one that I am very proud of.

Kat, we are obviously on the same wavelength here I had a couple of minis make it to the finals myself. However, I have been lucky and they are scoring high 7\'s early 8\'s so in some respects, for me at least (they are my highest scores) the site is working pretty well.

I saw your stuff in real life, and especially liked your large scale Saurus - however the size of this mini doesnt seem to allow a 600 pixel-wide image do it justice! Keep your chin up and make sure you keep posting models! dont get discouraged, we are here \'competing\' with the greatest painters in the world!

I think the drop in scores is also due to the need for a wider range between tabletop and Slayer Sword winning models! so people are dropping their \'average\' so they can distinguish between the greats.

Cheers guys
-Peter

 

[finn17]

I think that is very true...

Originally posted by Avicenna
I think the drop in scores is also due to the need for a wider range between tabletop and Slayer Sword winning models! so people are dropping their \'average\' so they can distinguish between the greats.

But also, to win a GD means a few people have to like it a lot, to do extremely well on CMON means hundreds, if not thousands of people, have got to like it a lot.

 

[kittykat23uk]

@ Avicenna- thanks! I\'m proud of him no matter what his rating on here, and so many primary colours on that one meant my camera struggled to do it justice.

@ Finn thats a very good point.

Also it occurred to me that with those recent images of Ilyad Games miniatures that were superbly painted, I\'m not surprised that I\'m struggling to keep up. Some of that stuff is simply stunning!!


Regards

Kat
Regards

Kat

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by kittykat23uk
As this expectation has clearly not been substantiated in practice, I can only conclude that the judging here is getting harsher and not just on the paintjob but overall picture quality expectations.
...

I need to see that I am making progress with my work. I really value the comments I receive here on CMON and I am trying to address the bad points raised in my most recent batch of minis, both painting wise and photograpy wise.

I agree that judging is getting harsher. I realize that my own seems to be doing so. The reason is, when I started using this site, my realm of reference was smaller. I\'ve since seen things I wouldn\'t have thought possible. Thus, to knock my socks off you have to work harder.

Now to the second point, you will have to deal with the comments of a few people you trust. When I want critique I usually PM someone who has given me good feedback in the past and those people have always looked at my new piece and given an honest opinion.
Coolness is an appeal to the masses. What you need to assess your improvement is a critique from someone with experience (at least in seeing good minis) and who can eloquently give feedback. Because the masses might not like your new one as much as they liked the old one is no way to judge improvement because the masses might have disliked the sculpt, the color choice or just at a bad curry that day.

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by ZaPhOd
This is a DIRECT result of the algorithm that shows new posts with less than 50 votes much more frequently. This allows all of the asshead snipers to hit you hard and all of a sudden, you are at .5 to 1 lower than you expected, with 50 votes, and your mini disappears into the void of other \"old\" minis and never gets comments from all the good folks that used to simply because they never get to see them. (CHERN HELP)

On the other hand, it used to take months for one of my minis to get 50 votes and thus affect my ranking but the other day I posted one and in one day it had 40+ votes.