What makes a miniature line successful?

[SIGIL]

Ok so I am in the midst of a creative dilemma.....

I want to begin my own line of miniatures.... Well not just a \" line \" but an entire game, complete with an original rules system ( I know nothing of rules so I may enlist some help here ) and a totally original IP setting. ANd let us just say that the setting is VERY loosely based on traditional fantasy staples with MUCH more exotic or anti traditional aesthetic themes... think all NON european Mythos... Not a lick of Tolkienism......

Think Howard and Burroughs have a baby who grows up to marry Lovecraft and has a baby who is on a mission to lay waste to the conventions of modern fantasy........ Yeah that would about do it.


Now I am wondering; What is it that might make this a success ?.....

I look at other successful system ( IPs ) and see a whole hell of a lot of \" sameness \"...For all intents and purposes they are all the same IP-wise. Warhammer fantasy is interchangeable with Confrontation fantasy.... Reaper is interchangeable with everyone..... DnD.... well if their minis were worth a crap I might include them in this discussion..... CEltos skirts traditional fantasy thematics but not wide enough to REALLY differentiate itself.... I mean it is almost as if it is all one big conglomeration of fantasy! These I have listed above ( with the exception of Celtos ) are by far the most successful game system settings on the market.

:flame:

What the hell!?!?

Looking beyond those I see what ??? ? Crocodile games\'s War Gods of Aegyptus, and Legend of the Five Rings?? And only ONE of those two has managed any measure of success as far as I know.... SO what does it take for a mini line to be a success? Elves, Dwarves, Humans, and Orcs? Norse themes? Celtic themes? British themes? Seems a little depressing if you ask me if that is all we have to look forward to.

SO Is it the quality of the models that makes the difference? I would think tthat this would have a lot to do with it.

Is it the rules system?

IP Fluff?

Thematic interchangability?

Thematic familiarity? :|~

Advertising?

Availibilty?

Any insight or discussion would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[Badkarma1354]

As far as the minis themselves you want to be different. One reason I am a celtos fan is because they have figures that stand out in a crowd. They do not just have generic barbs and undead. I think if you are going to start a mini line you need to create minis that really stand out and have feature that few minis have, like celtos did with kilts and big muscles.

 

[FredrickvonCarstein]

First you need a team. Develop warbands, armies, characters or whatever the system is based on. After this, you\'ll need:
-People to draw up the basic idea of models and then define certain details (unless you intend to do the entire range yourself, which would be one hell of a venture)
-Other modellers to make the models, painters to do the displays
-And last but most definitely not least, a team of developpers to create and test rules out. Unfortunately thats just the basics of it.

I know a few of us on CMON who would be willing to do some of the above for free, or with incentives (I know Dennismech is an avid artist as am I, don\'t know what he charges but I\'d do it for nothing or maybe a couple of the finished models) while others would be willing to paint up the models just for the sake of having something to paint (myself included, though my skills are more than likely lacking in said area). Best of luck to you, and if you need any help, just PM me.

 

[Avicenna]

I think to start off with it needs to be original high quality sculpts and quality casting. As an example of this I would use Hasslefree miniatures who have a distinctive style, and at the moment there is no game and little \'fluff\', but they are doing very well and release 8 minis a month (with just one sculptor).

I think that is a very good model to go by. They kinda need to be generic enough to be usable in other systems, but different enough to stand out.

 

[supervike]

good point...

It seems almost all miniatures and subsequent gaming systems get pigeon holed into the fantasy or the \'gritty futuristic\'. There have been a few that have broken free of that stigma, but not to many.

For me, it is all about the miniatures. But I am not too much of a gamer. The fluff is a little important to me, only in regards that it makes me interested in wanting to paint/convert/create characters the fictional characters inside.

I could be wrong here, but I it seems people were drawn like moths to a flame to Rackham because of the incredible miniatures, and having a good game system seemed like icing on the cake.

As far as coming up with an original back story and IP....I don\'t know. It seems kind of a vicious cycle. If it deviates too far from what is considered the \'norm\' no one will give it a fair shake. If it doesn\'t deviate far enough, it is just a \'knock-off or clone system\'. I\'d look for inspiration in movies, pc games, comics.

How about a complete gaming system based in the modern world where folks just go to work, pay bills, and hang out?........ lol

Good luck!!

 

[Molebrain]

new game system

People are afraid of change, and if you design a system that is radically different it\'s going to take a while before people get into it, and even though it\'s a very big crapshoot. If you, as you say, have no gaming experience you\'ve got about a one in a million chance of coming up with something that people will enjoy. That\'s why most of the games you\'ve mentioned are similar, with a twist.

Get some friends involved, ones that game- a lot, to help you develop rules. Then let some friends playtest it that don\'t play games much at all.

Miniatures are a different story, but it\'s a tough, tough business. Good luck.

Zach

 

[Avicenna]

I\'d say concentrate on the figures first and get some greens about for people to see. I guess it depends if you are a sculptor or are going to go the way or sacred blade or eastern front and hire other sculptors...

 

[sniffles]

I\'d ask yourself first, what do you consider successful? Is it on the level with GW or Reaper, or are you willing to accept a lower-income level of success?

I\'d personally enjoy seeing some minis with a more Eastern (non-Japanese) style, or Greco-Roman, or even better, Hindu or Persian style. But the majority of customers seem to want the Anglo-European stuff, else it wouldn\'t be doing so well for so many years.

 

[No Such Agency]

How about a complete gaming system based in the modern world where folks just go to work, pay bills, and hang out?........

It\'s called \"The Sims\" and it\'s retarded. It became a big success though for some unfathomable, demented reason.

SIGIL - selling miniatures is a very competitive business, you really need to stand out from the dozens of other small lines out there. If you offer poor quality, boring, derivative or overpriced minis you will find it hard to sell anything. And game systems are even trickier since they need to reach \"critical mass\" so your players have other people to play with!

I\'d say it\'s not worth the risk, but I\'m not a very objective counsellor to the small businessperson. See, I get sad every time I see a new kebab shop open since I think \"they\'ll go under in a few months\". Nevertheless, you could lose a lot of money, very quickly.

 

[AUrukHai]

Space marines make a mini line successful. Care to argue? Look at GW and what is most commonly associated with them.

 

[FredrickvonCarstein]

Originally posted by sniffles
I\'d ask yourself first, what do you consider successful? Is it on the level with GW or Reaper, or are you willing to accept a lower-income level of success?

I\'d personally enjoy seeing some minis with a more Eastern (non-Japanese) style, or Greco-Roman, or even better, Hindu or Persian style. But the majority of customers seem to want the Anglo-European stuff, else it wouldn\'t be doing so well for so many years.

I think what he\'s going for, and definitely something I have in mind, is something completely unique. No historical or media influence, something no one\'s seen before.

 

[Avicenna]

Originally posted by AUrukHai
Space marines make a mini line successful. Care to argue? Look at GW and what is most commonly associated with them.

Space marines get a mini line sued! I think GW were popular well before the space marines became their iconic range. I think the popularity of the Space Marines is because it is a GW line, not the other way round.

 

[praetorian0_1]

pre-painted- well- which doesn\'t exist yet
coming with some clicky game don\'t hurt either

 

[SIGIL]

I think what he\'s going for, and definitely something I have in mind, is something completely unique. No historical or media influence, something no one\'s seen before.

DING DING!! :idea: Yes!

And if it were not so different I would post a pic of one of the central character races as reference for the style. However as things are I will refrian from such until the green is done, and accompanied by at least three other similar greens to cover variations of the theme.

I am not talking about LOTR with a twist, or even Euro fantasy with a twist... I am talking about something that has NEVER been successful before. For all I know it may have been attempted in the past and just was not successful.. And that is the scary part.

One thing I will say about it is that I have taken inspiration from a lot of really popular fantasy icons... without cloning them or trying to out do them at their own game..... That is to say that I have paid attention to what works without copying it.

I am an artist and sculptor, so I would be personally handling a lot of the production itself. I am not opposed to partnering with another artist, sculptor or otherwise, per-se. I would just want who ever I partnered with to have as similar a style to mine as possible for the sake of cohesion in the Art style of the line itself.

I am also a writer of meager talent so I would also take care of a lot of the fluff writing.

The rules system is where I would not have a clue.... I know what themes I would want to adhere to, and what kind of game pacing I would liek to achieve, but I have never even played a war game or skirmish game so I do not even know what it is like to play them first hand.


As you can tell I am MUCH more concerned with the Art and Writing of the IP than with the rules system itself.

Gotta go for now be back shortly.

 

[Primeval]

Well from the looks of the partial sculpts I have seen you do I am very excited to see what you come up with.

If you ever need a meagerly talented painter who specializes in barbarians, I might know someone....

 

[Trevor]

For the rules, you need simple complexity, a game that is easy to play, yet offers a lot of variation/depth (think magic the gathering, basic principle get land to get mana to cast spells, that allows almost infinite complexity on top of this basic premise).

I\'ve always fancied writing my own rules systems. I\'d be interested to be involved if you need a hand.

 

[supervike]

character recognition...

I really like the idea of a game system that incorporates many of the \'genre\'s together as one.

The actual mechanics would undoubtably become clunky and hard to manage, but image a gaming system where you could start off as a role player, move into a skirmish, finish off the day with a huge tabletop battle, all the while keeping your character on a personal intimate level. Does any of that even make sense?

A gaming system based on movies like \'dog soldiers\' or \'dawn of the dead\' type might be fun. Do they have any like that?

 

[SIGIL]

Thanks Primeval...It is always nice to have a vote of confidence. I am sure you would like the stuff I have planned.. Put it this way, think very early Roman-Greco era technology level. High grade metal is as precious as it is rare, and ususally not found in large quantities. A broad sword would be the weapon of a King or REALLY wealthy / powerful noble / Theocrat.

I will be sure to let you know when I am ready. I like the smoothness of your work.

For the rules, you need simple complexity, a game that is easy to play, yet offers a lot of variation/depth (think magic the gathering, basic principle get land to get mana to cast spells, that allows almost infinite complexity on top of this basic premise).

This is the basic I dea I had. I want game mechanics that could be played very fast and loose, yet retained enough flexibility to accomodate imaginative rule bending.

The actual mechanics would undoubtably become clunky and hard to manage, but image a gaming system where you could start off as a role player, move into a skirmish, finish off the day with a huge tabletop battle, all the while keeping your character on a personal intimate level. Does any of that even make sense?

This would work quite well for the character of the game idea... In this game I thought it might be cool to focus less on \" Army Identity \" and more on \" Unit \" or \" War Band \" identity.

The world itself would be a fairly chaotic place with very little in the way of cohesive social structure......Lots of conflicting political, economic, and religious factions getting into all kinds of scraps with one another. Do not get me wrong there would be large powers and centralized governmental bodies, but the forces by which these powers and governments ruled would be about fifty fifty mercanary and regular troop units.

In this I would want to have a system where by units could take on their own identity, independant of a national identity.



Does any of that sound interesting?

 

[Primeval]

I like the sounds of that myself, I have thought it would be nice to have a skirmish level game with units I was interested in, might get me back to gaming. I like Reaper\'s Warlord game, but there aren\'t any barbarian factions
Warhammer doesn\'t appeal to me because of the inclusion of guns and such, but I could see playing a mass-combat scale game too if the setting was right. Perhaps there are enough others like me out there that if you come up with the flavor you described with your REH-Burroughs-Lovecraft bit would be intrigued.

Also, something I have seen lately is that miniature companies are developing forums and online commmunities at their websites to get people to spend time there, and it seems to build customer loyalty if they feel they identify with being part your company.

 

[Trevor]

Oh and if you do get the mini line started, I\'d love to paint some of them