What\'s the difference between a 7 and an 8

[Flashman14]

Apart from \"1\" (ya smart alecks!)

I just completed a blitz of voting and I put it to you that the difference between a 7 and an 8 is the sculpt.

Usually once you\'re past the 6\'s it\'s hard to distinguish what really deserves the 8.

At this level the paint job is fairly good.
Not quite as breathtaking as the 9\'s and the more obvious 10\'s but I often have to pause and think more about what makes a mini a 8 or just a 7. I landed on sculpt being the deciding factor - all other things being equal. Still fairly subjective but I throw it out to the group for your consideration . . . Now what those qualities of the sculpt are - I\'m unprepared to define at present.

But I think the same is true of the difference between a 3 and a 4.

 

[KatieG]

My take on 7 vs 8

I actually won\'t vote anything greater than a 7 if there\'s no freehand (unless the paintjob is really really stellar, but this has happened maybe once or twice). It usually requires a good sculpt, but once in a while I\'ve seen a not so great (can\'t be completely crappy mind you) one that gets my higher vote...
--Katie

 

[Errex]

To me, an 8 mini is one that displays a perfect painting technique, meaning that the gradients are subtle, there\'s discernible highlighting and shading, the paint looks smooth, and the base is finished to a matching standard for the mini.

From these basic points, added bonuses are to be gained regarding composition, color scheme, photography and theme of the presented piece.

A 7 mini is a mini that lacks on some of the aforementioned points, while still being an stunning piece of work.

 

[SaxonAngel]

Some minis, especially older ones, will never achieve a high rating due to a poor sculpt. Even Jennifer Haley has a 5.8 mini. And its a beautifully painted, butt-ugly miniature. So the miniature itself affects the score quite a bit.


Peace!
-Angela:innocent:

 

[kannan_fodder]

Personally I think the main difference between a 7 and an 8 is the voter. What looks good to one person may not to another. (Same for a 6 and 7.)

 

[Bonk]

7 or 8

To me, a 7 is possible to achieve with solid technic. 8+ has to show artistic qualities, be it colour choice, freehand, conversion, bringing the mini to life or such.
The mini-sculpt itself is only worth +-1 point. However, a butt ugly sculpted mini often doesn\'t give room or just doesn\'t motivate enough for the artistic challenge to get high votes.

Have fun!

Bonk!

 

[Infidel Castro]

I think the sculpt does it...

I posted an Imperial Preacher that rated 7.6 and I have also posted many China Town minis that rate at 6.5 - 7. My feeling is that the GW piece was quite well painted but no better really than the China Town minis I\'m doing. The China Town pieces scored lower due to them being an unknown in this case (IMO). The question is, how can you judge painting techniques when you\'re too busy looking for your favourite manufacturer? Also, what is my true level overall if people rate a GW piece higher than my other pieces? Is it the upper or lower rating? ???

I don\'t think I\'m over- or under-marked and I have no problems with whatever score I receive as long as I get a little feedback, but it does float around in my mind.

Phil

 

[vincegamer]

Sculpt can help occasionally, but I think more often it can hurt. Older, poor sculpts will have a ceiling that no matter how good the paint job it, they will never get above.
For me, a 7 is a figure that doesn\'t really have anything bad about it, but when I see an 8 I want to slap the painter on the back and say \"now THAT\'S a mini!\"
A 9 it would be too presumptuous of me to slap the artiste, and I would say in a more subdued tone \"you have done a marvelous job.\" whereas a 10 I would say nothing because it\'s hard to talk with your jaw on the ground.

 

[AAvH-Darkblade]

Originally posted by vincegamer
Sculpt can help occasionally, but I think more often it can hurt. Older, poor sculpts will have a ceiling that no matter how good the paint job it, they will never get above.
For me, a 7 is a figure that doesn\'t really have anything bad about it, but when I see an 8 I want to slap the painter on the back and say \"now THAT\'S a mini!\"
A 9 it would be too presumptuous of me to slap the artiste, and I would say in a more subdued tone \"you have done a marvelous job.\" whereas a 10 I would say nothing because it\'s hard to talk with your jaw on the ground.

EXACTLY!

I try to concentrate on the work of the artist in question, their painting and/or their conversion work . . . sometimes one just wants to paint something different, or work on a older mini for the fun of it. I try not to mark down, just because I\'m not fond of the fig myself.

Darkblade

 

[nadine]

Originally posted by reverend
I posted an Imperial Preacher that rated 7.6 and I have also posted many China Town minis that rate at 6.5 - 7. My feeling is that the GW piece was quite well painted but no better really than the China Town minis I\'m doing. The China Town pieces scored lower due to them being an unknown in this case (IMO). The question is, how can you judge painting techniques when you\'re too busy looking for your favourite manufacturer? Also, what is my true level overall if people rate a GW piece higher than my other pieces?

I\'m not sure I can convey my thoughts about this but I\'ll try. GW miniatures tend to have a certain \'look\' to them; large weapons, blah blah. If you\'re used to that \'look\', when you see a miniature that, as another example, actually has proper proportions, weapons to scale, etc, it looks funny because you\'re not used to it. That mindset may account for the disparity in ratings.

N.

 

[kannan_fodder]

Maybe I\'m just different, but I like to see minis from companies that I don\'t know much about. I\'m always on the lookout for another company that might have that particular miniature I haven\'t found yet....

And I\'d like to think that I\'m fair about voting - Looking more at painting and presentation than if I recognize the mini or not. To me a 7 is a good job. An 8 is even better - one that makes me stop an look for a bit longer.

 

[Con EL Pueblo]

On GW versus other companies...

I don\'t agree on Saxon Angel\'s comment on the \"feel\" of the GW mini-line, because, as far as I can see, other companies has gone that way too, yet their products don\'t reach as high as GW minis.

And I don\'t think that it is us, the regular users (oh well, perhaps not me, I\'m pretty new...) that make those minis get a higher rating.

My theory, while lacking any hard evidence is pretty solid , is that it\'s the newcomers (read: GW fanboys, enthusiasts, players, etc.) who by seeing minis they are familiar with, painted to a level they are NOT familiar with (ie, breath-taking), give those minis a very high rating. When they see figures from another brand they go: \"which side is up?\", and ditches the score.

I know this because that\'s how I used to do when I first got here. lol

Call me a fanboy, but now I only look at GW minis, unless looking for, say, NMM inspiration

Bottom Line: familiarity playes a \'ooge part in this, and so does number of hits.

Now how\'s THAT for rambling??

 

[SaxonAngel]

But I didn\'t say that! Don\'t bite me!

Originally posted by Con EL Pueblo
I don\'t agree on Saxon Angel\'s comment on the \"feel\" of the GW mini-line, because, as far as I can see, other companies has gone that way too, yet their products don\'t reach as high as GW minis.

 

[Lurch]

When they see figures from another brand they go: \"which side is up?\", and ditches the score.

Umm.. ok..wow. :wow: I dont even know what to say to this. What side is up to some of the fantastic sculpts of Waner Klock? Sandra Garrity? ( Reaper minis)
Perhaps you have not seen the fantastic detailed work of the guys at Rackham?
Your answer to this is \"which way is up?\"

Call me a fanboy, but now I only look at GW minis, unless looking for, say, NMM inspiration

ok fanboy, (just joking) but by doing so, you are missing out on some absolutely beautiful work by people who very rarely do GW items. ( Jan Haley, Sivous Play, even Saxon Angel\'s Black Dragon or Chronopia Blademaiden) as well as preventing yourself from trying some truly wonderful mini games by other companies.
I truly feel sorry for you if you look at only one line of minis here at CMON, or are unwilling to try new games.
I would say that it would be mindsets such as yourself, which prevent some of the smaller, but better quality companies from being able to get off the ground.
Try some Confrontation, or Dark Ages... Expand your horizons , you won\'t be sorry

 

[nadine]

Originally posted by Con EL Pueblo
I don\'t agree on Saxon Angel\'s comment on the \"feel\" of the GW mini-line, because, as far as I can see, other companies has gone that way too, yet their products don\'t reach as high as GW minis.

I assume you actually meant Nadine and not SaxonAngel She is more memorable than I perhaps! :lol

In any case, the \'GW\' mindset is apparent when one sees conversions of Space Marine types with impossibly large shoulders, a head that (if the armor were removed from the body) would actually be attached somewhere around the middle of the chest never mind where the neck is, etc...IMO other companies emulate the oversize weapons because of what is popular. GW is successful, and while I\'m no expert I see similar exaggerations in anime-type artwork as well. I think others are trying to cash in on that.

Anyway, if you\'re used to seeing horses with gargantuan heads, huge weapons and whatnot, when you see a miniature that is properly proportioned it isn\'t going to have that same \'oomph\'.

I\'ll see your ramble and raise you another ramble!

N.

 

[kannan_fodder]

Lurch, you forgot to mention Dennis Mize and Julie Guthrie. Heck, you could add the entire sculpting staff at Reaper!

And Con El Pueblo, you might be interested to know that Reaper\'s sculptors have done TONS of work for other companies. I recently saw a 100 Kingdoms miniature (sculpted by Sandra Garrity) that had more than a little passing resemblance to GW\'s Aneur the Sword of Twilight!

I guess I\'m glad that I actually look at what I\'m voting on from the stand point of someone who\'s on the constant look-out for that perfect mini for such-and-such character.

 

[Infidel Castro]

GW minis

I\'ll be honest, I still think that given the overall depth of their ranges and the quality of sculptors, GW is the most recognisable and most professional mini producer around. I\'ll go with Nadine on this one as I do think their look and feel are stand out and eyecatching. Oversized bits here and there and a general attention to fine detail make them OVERALL the best out there and as such people are happier to see these pieces and rate them well. They feel familiar and cosy! lol

I\'m not disparaging other manufacturers by stating the above, it\'s just that GW has set the standard in the past and continues to do so. Whilst saying that, they should take Rackham, New Age and Reaper, look long and hard at their appeal and make sure that they are giving the customer enough, particularly for their money, as they seem to be a business first and hobby second. Not that it\'s bad to be like that - it\'s just degrees.

Hey, I adore GW pieces myself. There! Said it! :innocent:

Phil

 

[Coyote]

Did anyone look at the miniatures he\'s referring to?

The Chinatown miniatures are dark grey bases with sand.

The preacher miniature is on a big honking rock, with flock used as well.

That\'s why the score is different.

There are excellent sculptors out there, with different companies and in different scales (AB Figures 20mm WWII miniatures come to mind. Superb detail for the scale)

However, GW has been recruiting and training sculptors for almost 25 years. Yes, a lot of their stuff is obviously fantasy and exaggerated. However, that\'s a style issue, not a skill issue (look at the LOTR miniatures, which are more to scale, true 25mm and excellent)

The preacher miniature in the example is a nice, solid sculpt, with a pose made very dynamic and interesting with the use of the large stone. Also, the triangle formed by the arms and sword keep the eye moving over the model.

 

[Infidel Castro]

At last!

Hey, thanks Coyote! I have to say you\'re probably bang-on with the idea of the rock making the difference - made me think a bit too...

I\'ll put every mini on a little rock! lol

Cheers

Phil:innocent:

 

[Lurch]

However, GW has been recruiting and training sculptors for almost 25 years. Yes, a lot of their stuff is obviously fantasy and exaggerated. However, that\'s a style issue, not a skill issue (look at the LOTR miniatures, which are more to scale, true 25mm and excellent)

No one is saying that GW does not put out a nice model. I particularly like the look and feel that the orks/gobs give. I am also a S.O.B. fan. (Sisters of Battle for the uninitiated. ) The LOTR license was given to them for there quality work, I am sure.
But only playing one game type is like watching only one TV channel when you have an entire satelite to choose from
or staying with AOL because you have a dial up modem, even though theres a cable line in the other room.
Do you eat from only one restaraunt? Wear only one brand of clothes?

What we are saying is that to mark a model down, or not even vote on it due to the fact it doesnt fit into the \"GW\" world is ludicrous. I feel sorry for anyone who limits their own horizons simply for \"brand appeal\"
:|~