what will be the ramifications of a recession in america to the rest of the world?

[wiccanpony]

all I can say is Casa Pony is very lucky, house paid off, car paid off, CC paid off...... grandfathered into the low property taxes due to Prop 13.

May have to cut back on ordering take out, but other wise we’re doing ok.

 

[mattrock]

my point above is that market cycles happen. That means we will have good economies and bad ones, then we\'ll rinse and repeat.

If the subprime thing weren\'t happening it\'d be something else (and it is something else even with the subprime thing...lots of somethings). We are simply overdue. I do agree with Vike though...it was and is a dual fault problem. I\'m proud to say that my firm did not get wrapped up in the problems and saw them coming long before they did.

Also, the thing about the canadian books is one of the most thought provoking things I\'ve heard in a long time. I hadn\'t even paid attention to be honest...your argument makes perfect sense though. One question though: can you not just convert some currency and purchase with USDs?

 

[Shadzar]

there is actually a thread on the canadian price of book, namely D&D over on the WotC forums.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1000849

many say that books closer to the US border are sold for the USD rather than the printed Canadian price....

 

[Friar]

Not totally tied in to the topic but the who\'s in office not having total control over the economy an all just made me have to say this. The one thing Big Bubba Bush did totally fart up is the friggin gas prices, pre-Bush 1 buck a gallon - 33 bucks a barrel of oil ..... now after 7 years of Bush almost 4 bucks a gallon and 106 buck a barrel on oil. Now that is totally Bush\'s fault.

I never thought I would say this but I miss Bill Clinton back in happy days where the biggest issue the nation had was a BJ and misplaced cigars

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by Friar
Not totally tied in to the topic but the who\'s in office not having total control over the economy an all just made me have to say this. The one thing Big Bubba Bush did totally fart up is the friggin gas prices, pre-Bush 1 buck a gallon - 33 bucks a barrel of oil ..... now after 7 years of Bush almost 4 bucks a gallon and 106 buck a barrel on oil. Now that is totally Bush\'s fault.

I never thought I would say this but I miss Bill Clinton back in happy days where the biggest issue the nation had was a BJ and misplaced cigars

I seriously doubt that is Bush\'s doing Just saying.
If you really want to blow a fuse, next time you go to the gas pump look at how much the federal taxes and state taxes are per gallon. Now get this, the oil companies have been restricted to .09 -.11 cents profit per gallon since the 70\'s or so, meaning our government makes far more money off of gas than the people who find it, drill it, ship it refine it and ship it to where you can get it.
Want relief at the pumps? Look at your Congress.

 

[mud duck]

Now how can you put all the blame of the price of gas on the shoulders of the president?

 

[Shadzar]

Originally posted by mud duck
Now how can you put all the blame of the price of gas on the shoulders of the president?

cause he is full of \"it\" and could freely give the methane produced from himself as fuel.

 

[Evil Dave]

If congress would let us drill in ANWAR, I guarantee the prices would drop significantly.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Originally posted by Evil Dave
If congress would let us drill in ANWAR, I guarantee the prices would drop significantly.

Correct..their are more untapped oils reserves out there right now than any oil field that has been drilled and pumped.. theres 100\'s of years worth of oil reserves.. there no shortage of oil.

What there is in this country is a shortage of refining capacity. We have not built a new refinery in the US since the 70\'s and most of we have now in inefficient at best. ANWAR as Dave mentioned would be one relief, others include the major Alaskan pipelins that have been shut down for a couple years now because they were corroding from the inside out due to lack of maintance.

Right now the price of oil and gas..has more to do with speculation of disruption of supply than the actual amount of it flowing. The current jump in the price of oil is du to unrest in South America with Columbia and Venezuela threatening to go to war and Turkey invading Northern Iraq chasing Kurdish rebels. Neither effected the flow of oil, but in the world markets panice brought on price increases.

 

[mattrock]

I vote for \"let\'s obliterate OPEC.\" War for oil...I\'m all for it with the right targets in mind.


[size=-2]kidding, sheesh. I exhaggerated to make a point...OPEC is the biggie boys and girls...they set oil prices and they are the problem. ANWAR would help too.[/size]

 

[Friar]

Originally posted by mud duck
Now how can you put all the blame of the price of gas on the shoulders of the president?

How is it that thru the 90\'s oil is fairly steady goin form ruffly 20-30 bucks a gallon 90-00 and from 2001-2008 it\'s gone from 30-106 just too much of a coincedence for me.

But maybe I\'m way off, maybe I just like to blame G.W.


Probally just like to blame the goofy bastard, but just a couple quick points, Chavez hates him there by friggin up Venezuala\'s oil exports to us... mmm maybe it had something to do with that coup in 2002. Iraq isn\'t really in the shape to consistently get oil produced and with all the crazy shite stirred up there the whole region is feeling nervous, price goes up.

and of course there is the issue of increased world wide consumption, less wells being drilled, panic in the market due to oil one day running out, katrina and so on but I btecha Bush had his hand in this ...mmmm... or maybe this is what Cheney has been upto :twisted:

 

[PegaZus]

Originally posted by Friar
How is it that thru the 90\'s oil is fairly steady going form ruffly 20-30 bucks a gallon 90-00 and from 2001-2008 it\'s gone from 30-106 just too much of a coincidence for me.

Too easy to refute. Look at the first chart on this page. From 1995 to 2005, annual oil consumption world-wide went up by 5 BILLION barrels of oil a year. To put it in easier terms to understand, it is the equivalent of OPEC\'s production for FIVE MONTHS. ALL OF IT! It is the equivalent of ALL of Saudia Arabia\'s production for A YEAR AND A HALF.

Simple supply and demand. And demand is HUGE right now. OPEC can\'t meet it. Nobody can. Thus, the price goes up.

 

[Friar]

Originally posted by PegaZus

Originally posted by Friar
How is it that thru the 90\'s oil is fairly steady going form ruffly 20-30 bucks a gallon 90-00 and from 2001-2008 it\'s gone from 30-106 just too much of a coincidence for me.

Too easy to refute. Look at the first chart on this page. From 1995 to 2005, annual oil consumption world-wide went up by 5 BILLION barrels of oil a year. To put it in easier terms to understand, it is the equivalent of OPEC\'s production for FIVE MONTHS. ALL OF IT! It is the equivalent of ALL of Saudia Arabia\'s production for A YEAR AND A HALF.

Simple supply and demand. And demand is HUGE right now. OPEC can\'t meet it. Nobody can. Thus, the price goes up.

Aye i know lol thats why I tongue in cheek said cheney was responsible for, demand going up, katrina and some other stuff.

:redface: what can I say Bush is a perfect scape goat, and a deserving whiping boy just stirring the kettle a bit

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Originally posted by Friar

Originally posted by mud duck
Now how can you put all the blame of the price of gas on the shoulders of the president?

How is it that thru the 90\'s oil is fairly steady goin form ruffly 20-30 bucks a gallon 90-00 and from 2001-2008 it\'s gone from 30-106 just too much of a coincedence for me.

But maybe I\'m way off, maybe I just like to blame G.W.


Probally just like to blame the goofy bastard, but just a couple quick points, Chavez hates him there by friggin up Venezuala\'s oil exports to us... mmm maybe it had something to do with that coup in 2002. Iraq isn\'t really in the shape to consistently get oil produced and with all the crazy shite stirred up there the whole region is feeling nervous, price goes up.

and of course there is the issue of increased world wide consumption, less wells being drilled, panic in the market due to oil one day running out, katrina and so on but I btecha Bush had his hand in this ...mmmm... or maybe this is what Cheney has been upto :twisted:

What you forget is this. As two of the world largest populated countries, India and China gain in more of its middle class being about to afford cars and motor bikes and such, their demand for oil increases also. In the 70\'s as you like to point out.. Countries like China had zero miles of paved interstate in its entire country.. now its pouring concrete faster than anywhere in the world and they will have something like 30 million people on the road driving.. China NOT the Uited Sates is consuming the worlds resources right now at a pace that out weighs a majority of all the world combined. They are pouring something like 50% of the worlds concrete right now.. driving the price of that material sky high also.. the consume more than 50% of the worlds steel also..and its not to make products to ship back to us.. its staying put right there.

No as much as you want to make Bush the Boogie man here..hes got zero to do with the price of oil or what OPEC dictates its all about supply and demand and demand out strips supply at the moment..

 

[Sand Rat]

At the OPEC Meeting in October of 2006, the member states agreed to cut production of oil in order to drive the price of oil up.

Since then they have not increased production, in part because the price of oil has risen steadily.

But as has been said earlier, part of the problem in the US with gas prices is production - the US refineries have a max output production of around 16 million barrel s of gasoline a month, and uses about 20 million barrels of gasoline a month. See the issue?


Course with the greens pushing to raise fuel economy and cut usage, there is no real incentive for Big Oil to improve refining capacity, now is there?

 

[Friar]

Originally posted by Dragon Forge Design
No as much as you want to make Bush the Boogie man here..hes got zero to do with the price of oil or what OPEC dictates its all about supply and demand and demand out strips supply at the moment..

Nice points bout india/china, I was talkin bout the 90\'s not 70\'s maybe just a typo but in the 90\'s they definatly had paved roads but I agree they are rabid lil gas monkies :beer:

tho to say bush has zero to do with gas prices is a about as square as it bein his fault. theres no denying that destabilising & pissing off the largest oil producing regions has an effect on oil prices.

But all in all I was just takin a piss lol I\'m in a bit of goofy mood tonight :moon::bouncy::moon:


oh and Cheney is the boogie man, Bush is just a muppet lol

 

[Elly3438]

Mattrock - well, if the president has nothing to do with the economy, then why is Bush giving money back to the people, AGAIN, when the country obviously can\'t afford it and it didn\'t do anything the first time. If the president just goes with the flow of things, then why have economic stimulus plans? I think the government can do stupid things to mess things up even more, and of course with a republican in office, the idea is to print print and print money, and get into more and more debt.... and eventually, the country will implode on itself and come crashing down.
And as for the ANWAR, leave it alone! Damn, do humans have to destroy EVERY part of the world for their greedy consumption and gas guzzling SUVs? Screw that, leave at least a few places in the world untainted by dirty human hands....

 

[Sand Rat]

In the end, Bush isn\'t giving money to the US people, Congress is.

He proposed a stimulus plan - Congress had to approve it and appropriate the money for it - with out the approval of the Democratic Majority in Congress Bush would not have paper to put ink upon.


As for the Republican solution being spend and print - check the post WWII spending of the Democratically controlled Congress - and believe it or not in the last 60 years the vast majority of time has been spent under Democratic Congresses, not Republican. For a couple of wonderful examples of Democratic fiscal responsibility in this time frame take a look at the bills sponsered by Senator Bird of West Virginia or by Congressman Murtha of Pennsylvania - both long term porkers.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Originally posted by steelcult
In the end, Bush isn\'t giving money to the US people, Congress is.

He proposed a stimulus plan - Congress had to approve it and appropriate the money for it - with out the approval of the Democratic Majority in Congress Bush would not have paper to put ink upon.


As for the Republican solution being spend and print - check the post WWII spending of the Democratically controlled Congress - and believe it or not in the last 60 years the vast majority of time has been spent under Democratic Congresses, not Republican. For a couple of wonderful examples of Democratic fiscal responsibility in this time frame take a look at the bills sponsered by Senator Bird of West Virginia or by Congressman Murtha of Pennsylvania - both long term porkers.

Actually congress isnt even giving money to the American People.. were giving it to ourselves.. in a way were just getting back out own money. There isnt a 150 billion sitting in the bank that they are with drawing and sending to us..they are borrowing it and creating more deficit.. to which they will eventually pay back by you guessed it..taxing people.. its got to come from somewhere..

As for pork barrel spending.. Do you know who the Queen of Earmarks is? Yup you guessed it..Hillary Clinton..she atached more \"Pet project\"spending bills for the state of New York to other bills passed in Congress last year than any other Senator.. over 400 million worth of wasteful spending.

 

[Sand Rat]

Yeah, well Jeff, I wasn\'t going to go into where the money was coming from - my point was if the \"We\'re here with a Mandate from the People\" Congress hadn\'t wanted to do it, that would have been the end of it.

As for Hillary being the Queen of Earmarking - she\'s still a piker in the long run when compaired to both Murtha and Bird - if for no other reason than she hasn\'t been in Congress as long as either of those fine gentlemen.