Who\'d be a squaddie?

[Ogrebane]

What makes someone royal then. The original British royals were just some big blokes with lots of mates that kinda took over. There is nothing in there DNA that makes them royal. It is only by peoples choice that they stay there.

Interesting that dick III prodgeny is living in Oz tho. Shall have to do some research (It could be me we did come from England along time ago)

 

[finn17]

Dave, you\'re not listening...

With regards to the Prince Harry argument, I have no problems with the \'Harry\' bit it\'s the title I have difficulties with. He can run amok with prostitutes for all I care, gamble himself bankrupt or drink himself to death. I have no expectations or hopes regarding him whatsoever....clear?

My original point was one of sympathy for the poor soldiers he will command...ring a bell?

As regards to tax...don\'t start...I forfeit a far higher percentage of my income in tax than you do. That\'s just a simple fact you can look up on the internet...

 

[Evil Dave]

Believe me, Harry will have very little if any combat time, and if he does the Non Coms will take care of everything.
Any officer that continuosly bucks his non-coms in a combat situation, royalty or not, usually finds himself fragged quickly, accidents happen in war.
Take this from a military man, believe me I\'ve seen far, far worse.
At the very least, Harry has had some grooming towards leadership. A lot of the officers I\'ve dealt with were straight out of college know it alls, who often cracked under pressure.

 

[Bobinator]

You what! Abolish the monarchy? your having a laugh, the monarchy represents everything British, without them we would be no better than the rebel colonies, for Gods sake, it makes us British, thats who we are and if you dont like it bugger off! if it wasnt for the Monarchy half the world would still be a cess pit, do you think that thousands, millions even, of soldiers would have died to make this world more civilised just because some oik like Blair ordered them to, no! they did it for the love of England and the establishment and the head of that establishment was either a King or Queen, hear the National anthem? who sings the loudest? who sings with all the pride and love and courage that a mortal man can muster, we do, the British! who do we sing about? The Queen!!! she is us and we are an extension of her divine right to rule, we by our combined might together use the idea of a King or Queen to focus our energies in order to bring light to the darkest places of our earth The anthem has been sung in nearly every country on this earth by hungry, tired and battle weary soldiers as a rallying song to bolster the spirits of the common fighting man. I didnt swear my oath to bloody Blair and bleeding Bush, I didnt take Blairs shilling I toke The Queens and thats only right and just, damn all you Anti-monarchist, I\'d shoot you, your not British if you stand for the abolishment of the monarchy, damn you all to hell and back you filthy traitors!!! Now stand up and sing, at the top of your voices, the National Anthem, if you dont feel your heart pounding with pride if you dont feel the tears forming in your eyes as your filled with the courage and nobility of a lion your not British and your not worth a damn!!!

 

[finn17]

I know that....

As someone said above though, it\'s still a heap load of shit for the poor NCO involved.

It still sticks in my throat however, when accidents of birth take precedence over actual merit, but hey ho, that\'s the real world

Dave, I know you well enough by now (in fact, I think I am more familiar with your political and philosophical views than I am with my own) to know that there is no real disagreement between us because, to my eternal shame, I am at least as big a shit as you are.:innocent:

EDIT: Bobinator....nice one

 

[Beelzebrush]

Finn I reckon you have as much insight into Harry\'s leadership qualities as I have... approximately zero. He may well be a damned good leader but when you are a closed book on the subject as you are you\'ll never give the bloke the benefit anyway. It must be really dismal being in a position in life where you become so jaded and cynical... you may not be like that but you do come across that way.

Well said bobinator!

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by finn17
As someone said above though, it\'s still a heap load of shit for the poor NCO involved.

It still sticks in my throat however, when accidents of birth take precedence over actual merit, but hey ho, that\'s the real world

Dave, I know you well enough by now (in fact, I think I am more familiar with your political and philosophical views than I am with my own) to know that there is no real disagreement between us because, to my eternal shame, I am at least as big a shit as you are.:innocent:

EDIT: Bobinator....nice one

Nah, there\'s no real disagreement and in certain regards I do agree with you, I just like the debate.
But, I can say coming from a relatively wealthy family of bankers, that people\'s perceptions of you are often skewed by who your family is, and what your family has done.

 

[funnymouth]

Originally posted by finn17
If you like him so much, you can havehim.

oh, as has been mentioned earlier in this very thread, we already have an aristocracy in the states. they are called \"celebrities\" and are virtually exempt ffrom our legal system. taxpayers do pick up the tab when they f*** up and walk away.

 

[Trevor]

What little I have gleaned about Harry and William actually quite impresses me. I think they may do quite a good \'job\'.

As for the tax\'s thing, last time I studied that the Royal family actually made the country more money than they cost it, also a lot of their money comes from their assets not our taxes.

I haven\'t actually managed to fathom why I quite like the monarchy, but I\'d rather have them than not. Maybe its because they can make you a baron?

 

[Dedwrekka]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by finn17
The fact that America has allowed an \'aristocracy\' to develop is only to be deplored...

Yeah, we haven\'t had a politician \"of the people, for the people\" in some time.

Maybe not \"Of your people\" or \"For your people\", but they\'re out there. That\'s what Pork Barrel politics is all about, getting as much (monetary) support for your constituancy as you can sqeeze out of the government. Also realize...your the one who gets them elected

Considering all the politicians in Federal and State government, it seems ignorant to pick only several of them and call it an aristocracy. Then what about Jesse \"The Body\" Ventura? I don\'t remember his daddy getting him the job. Arnold (Not even going to attempt to spell his last name)? As I recall he was chosen over the current governor and several more experienced politicians.

It\'s a profession, and like other professions, is usually impressed upon a young person\'s mind if they happen to see and learn about it from their parents. If your father painted minis (and got noticed for it) and you now paint minis (and get noticed for it) , are you part of the painting aristocracy? No you may not always be as good as you parent, you may be better, but is it fair that your parentage should serve to lessen your accomplishment? Sure some people ride on their parents coat-tails to politics in America, but does that mean that everyone does or that it\'s an aristocracy, or that it\'s an inherintly bad thing?

(That\'s my little rant for the night....)

 

[Sand Rat]

DW -

Closest thing we got to an aristocracy is the Kenedy Clan. The current Patriarch avoided jail time on at the least involuntary manslaughter and the most 2 counts of murder, and they just go down hill from there.

As for Harry\'s squaddies in the PBI, well hell, could he be any worse than Chelmsford in the Natal, or Cardigan in the Crimea?

 

[sebrushworth]

Originally posted by Bobinator
You what! Abolish the monarchy? your having a laugh, the monarchy represents everything British, without them we would be no better than the rebel colonies, for Gods sake, it makes us British, thats who we are and if you dont like it bugger off! if it wasnt for the Monarchy half the world would still be a cess pit, do you think that thousands, millions even, of soldiers would have died to make this world more civilised just because some oik like Blair ordered them to, no! they did it for the love of England and the establishment and the head of that establishment was either a King or Queen, hear the National anthem? who sings the loudest? who sings with all the pride and love and courage that a mortal man can muster, we do, the British! who do we sing about? The Queen!!! she is us and we are an extension of her divine right to rule, we by our combined might together use the idea of a King or Queen to focus our energies in order to bring light to the darkest places of our earth The anthem has been sung in nearly every country on this earth by hungry, tired and battle weary soldiers as a rallying song to bolster the spirits of the common fighting man. I didnt swear my oath to bloody Blair and bleeding Bush, I didnt take Blairs shilling I toke The Queens and thats only right and just, damn all you Anti-monarchist, I\'d shoot you, your not British if you stand for the abolishment of the monarchy, damn you all to hell and back you filthy traitors!!! Now stand up and sing, at the top of your voices, the National Anthem, if you dont feel your heart pounding with pride if you dont feel the tears forming in your eyes as your filled with the courage and nobility of a lion your not British and your not worth a damn!!!

lollollollol

(That was a joke right?) lol

 

[paintingploddy]

At least it won\'t be hard finding Platoon HQ, even at night. just follow the Papparazzi.

 

[finn17]

I\'d never have guessed....

Originally posted by Evil Dave
..... I just like the debate.

I\'ve been a student of your technique for some time now and recognise when I am being lined up as your next target:flip:

I enjoy the cut and thrust of debate myself but feel that we ought to wait until we find something we actually disagree on before crossing swords

Steelcult: You are quite right of course, but this is supposed to be 2006....

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by finn17

Originally posted by Evil Dave
..... I just like the debate.

I\'ve been a student of your technique for some time now and recognise when I am being lined up as your next target:flip:

I enjoy the cut and thrust of debate myself but feel that we ought to wait until we find something we actually disagree on before crossing swords

Steelcult: You are quite right of course, but this is supposed to be 2006....

I don\'t consider you a target, that has the feeling as if I\'m attacking you, which I\'m not.
The English, are the closest to us Americans culturally but there are still some big differences, and they truly intrigue me, so when I debate you it\'s really to see and understand those differing views.
As to the whole Harry thing, hey at least he\'s doing something. I\'d rather pay my taxes and support someone doing something with their lives, than pay for someone to sit on their asses and produce more leeches.

@DW- It really depends what your perception of an Aristocracy is. I view it as a group that have power and use that power to set themselves above the ordinary man.
It\'s why our forefathers never intended for there to be career politicians.
Take for example Social Security, our congressmen have their own seperate retirement fund, yank that I\'m sure Social Security would get fixed in a couple weeks.
Sure you get your Jesse Ventura\'s here and there, but for the most part you have your Kerry\'s, your Kennedy\'s, your DeLay\'s, people who are so damn rich that they can\'t even dream what it is to be \"of the People\" anymore.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originaly by Evil Dave

Sure you get your Jesse Ventura\'s here and there, but for the most part you have your Kerry\'s, your Kennedy\'s, your DeLay\'s, people who are so damn rich that they can\'t even dream what it is to be \"of the People\" anymore.

So now you see our point about the whole issue.
The \"royals\" are so isolated from the ordinary people in Britain that they may as well live on the moon. (Hmmmn Muses on cost of one-way ticket).

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by Dragonsreach
Originaly by Evil Dave

Sure you get your Jesse Ventura\'s here and there, but for the most part you have your Kerry\'s, your Kennedy\'s, your DeLay\'s, people who are so damn rich that they can\'t even dream what it is to be \"of the People\" anymore.

So now you see our point about the whole issue.
The \"royals\" are so isolated from the ordinary people in Britain that they may as well live on the moon. (Hmmmn Muses on cost of one-way ticket).

Of course I see your point, I always heard the \"royals\" have no real political power though.
I have no issues with you hating the system, I have issues with hating someone just because they are part of that system and never asked to be.
For example: I disagree with how our government is run today, but the people I especially despise have earned it, the people I admire in the government have earned my repect as well. I don\'t automatically despise someone because they work for a system that I find corrupt.

 

[finn17]

I didn\'t mean it like that Dave...

Originally posted by Evil Dave
I don\'t consider you a target, that has the feeling as if I\'m attacking you, which I\'m not.

I certainly didn\'t consider it an attack, far from it....I could just feel however, myself being sucked into the \'Evil Dave debating machine from which there is no escape\'....

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by Dragonsreach
Originaly by Evil Dave

Sure you get your Jesse Ventura\'s here and there, but for the most part you have your Kerry\'s, your Kennedy\'s, your DeLay\'s, people who are so damn rich that they can\'t even dream what it is to be \"of the People\" anymore.

So now you see our point about the whole issue.
The \"royals\" are so isolated from the ordinary people in Britain that they may as well live on the moon. (Hmmmn Muses on cost of one-way ticket).

Of course I see your point, I always heard the \"royals\" have no real political power though.
I have no issues with you hating the system, I have issues with hating someone just because they are part of that system and never asked to be. Please don\'t get me wrong I don\'t HATE them. I just have no time for them, or the way every instance they blow their nose is forced down our collective throats by our taboid press as crutial to the existance of the British way of life.
The monarchy\'s political power is almost non-existant, even the final signature by a monarch, supposedly required under English law to empower an Act of Parliment can be bypassed.

For example: I disagree with how our government is run today, but the people I especially despise have earned it, the people I admire in the government have earned my repect as well. I find no argument in this statement. I do believe however that the few people I admire in politics would not be the same yours.
I don\'t automatically despise someone because they work for a system that I find corrupt. Nor do I necessarily. But when they continue to propagate the corruption that becomes a different matter.
In the matter of our Monarchy I do not see them as \"Corrupt\", just as isolated from the true feelings of a great many of their populace.
Thankfully the days of Absolute Power being vested in the monarchy are long gone, because we have seen the effects of \"Royalty\" dividing a country and the equally devastating backlash into dictatorship which followed.

 

[mud duck]

Ok stupid question here. Has he joined the British Army or the Navy? I thought that it was \"tradishion\" to join the Navy. Either way I would think that a couple of weeks in boot, with a dog face DI breathing down the back of his neck will get any ideas of superurity out of his mind, royal blood or not. I\'d think that if anything the whole experince would bring him down to the level of the \'common\' man, officer or not.
Now the question is if he joined the Army, what MOS is he getting into? Tanker, Infantry, SAS, Combat Engineer? What?