Why oh why do I use eBay?

[Joek]

I\'ve been a seller on eBay for years, with 100% feedback etc. Despite my objections with using Paypal, I\'ve obviously had to most of the time and everything has gone through fine (well, aside from the bugger who conned me out of £250 when I sold my mobile a few years back, but once bitten eh?).

I was selling my Ork and goblins and someone bought them with buy it now. They paid instantly, and he has 600+ feeback and everything was good.

So I then get an email from Paypal saying that they placed my money on hold because it was over £50 and I didn\'t have enough Detailed seller...things. So, until I send out the goods and the buyer received the goods AND gives me positive feedback I wouldn\'t get the money.

Er...sorry? How dare they force this onto me. When did this happen? I mean, I don\'t use ebay that often any more, but how do people run a business when this sort of thing happens?

So I have to email the buyer stating that sorry, but I will only (and have only) post out goods when I actually get the payment and could you please add feedback immediately so I can post you your minis? Which, to put it bluntly sound distinctly dodgy were it not for the fact that - yes - I am an honest seller! I did put the caveat that if he was at all unhappy about this, then I\'d refund him no problems.

But, the point is I shouldn\'t have to do this. Hell, PP doesn\'t seem to give a damn about the seller at the best of times any way, and the buyer has always got more clout when it comes to disputing things.

Luckily, my buyer has agreed that this state of affairs is bonkers, and has left positive feedback - although I am STILL waiting for PP to put the money into the account (it clearly states that they\'d take the hold off as soon as positive feedback is given).

I\'m sorry for the rant, but this really isn\'t on at all in my book. In an ideal world, eBay is a great tool to show off my wares, but given that I bothg have to pay eBay AND paypal (fees etc), AND now faff about with all this positive feedback, I really am loathe to do it this way again.

Grr.

 

[ScottRadom]

I just started but eBay gives me access to about 1000 times the people I think I\'d normally have access too. And the fees and paypal cost accordingly. I pay it gladly, but I am trying to get my own website up and running. Even then, I think that despite this SNAFU you have to ask if you\'d have been able to get 600 pounds for your stuff if you\'d avoided eBay.

I know Mick Clark really wants Games 2 Trains to take off, maybe that\'s the alternative?

Dunno, but I love eBay for truly making the global market place accesible. And I had a customer plonk a 21 day hold on payment as well. However, I only had like 4 stars at the time, so I was fine with it.

 

[Joek]

To be honest, I\'m not so averse to having to pay Ebay or Paypal fees. Certainly, that\'s the price you pay to use the service which is all understandable. I do object to the notion that suddenly after 6 years with no bad service Paypal have decided that any transaction I now complete is going to be put on hold until I send the product out to the customer or have had positive feedback put on.

I\'m selling my wares, and the usual way retail online works is I get paid and then send on the items. I\'ve always been fine with that, and so has everyone that has bought from me. I don\'t really understand how I can go overnight from being a good person to buy from to become someone who has to be checked out. Feasibly, I could send out the goods and the buyer disputes payment. It\'s happened to me once before and before I knew it I lost out as a seller because the guy was dodgy as sin and left me £250 out of pocket, with seemingly nothing Paypal was able to do about it, despite me proving delivery receipts etc.

I dunno, I just don\'t like having the rug swept from under my feet when I\'ve been doing everything fine for those six years. TO suddenly have my selling hindered in such a way feels slightly absurd to me.

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by ScottRadom
you have to ask if you\'d have been able to get 600 pounds for your stuff if you\'d avoided eBay.

The problem is, of course, when you get zero pounds for your work because the buyer falsely claims the goods never arrived, or disputes, or gives you bad feedback... and you have to somehow prove otherwise, to PayPal\'s arbitrary satisfaction. The way I understand it, PayPal is very biased towards the buyer, and there is really not much recourse for sellers who have been cheated. And I only ever use it as a buyer.

 

[airhead]

try selling something they consider dodgy (pistol parts - not weapons) and have your bank account locked up...with no human to contact.

 

[ScottRadom]

Originally posted by No Such Agency

Originally posted by ScottRadom
you have to ask if you\'d have been able to get 600 pounds for your stuff if you\'d avoided eBay.

The problem is, of course, when you get zero pounds for your work because the buyer falsely claims the goods never arrived, or disputes, or gives you bad feedback... and you have to somehow prove otherwise, to PayPal\'s arbitrary satisfaction. The way I understand it, PayPal is very biased towards the buyer, and there is really not much recourse for sellers who have been cheated. And I only ever use it as a buyer.

And that\'s a very valid point. Yikes! Feel bad for you Joek, that sucks a ton.

I actually have one transaction on the go right now I am a little nervous about. It went by mail into Slovakia and should have been there by now. So if the guy claims it doesn\'t show, I\'m out the cash, right?

 

[JesterzUSMC]

It\'s not just paypal.
Ebay owns paypal, and the buyer is the seeming law as far as ebay is concerned.

It\'s dodgy, arbitrary, and seemingly random what and how they enforce everything.

Too late to stop them now.
They\'ve gotten too big, even if they broke a law, or heaven forbid got sued, they\'d pay the fine and continue on.

Even though corporate law says an abundance about owning subsidiary companies for payment etc.

It\'s unethical, but really, the alternative is nothing.

 

[NGArtStudios]

I think what it comes down to is that yes, there is a risk of loosing money but compared to how much you will make, I think it\'s worth the risk. Just like any other business, whether online or physical. No matter what business you own there is a annual loss percentage, especially if you deal with selling goods.

As far as Pay Pal putting a hold on the money, I agree it can be very frustrating. But understand that not only are they watching their own asses, but also looking out for their best \"customer\" so to speak. Which in this case isn\'t the seller, but the buyer. Sure it\'s a percentage of the money you are trying to make that Pay Pal keeps for each transaction, but ultimately without the buyer neither you or Pay Pal would be making this money in the first place. So they are trying to make sure that everything goes as smoothly as possible for the buyer so that they are not discouraged and in turn Pay Pal can keep making money. When it comes down to it what I\'m trying to say is that again, it is frustrating from our (the seller\'s) point of view, but in the end that\'s business.

Scott, to echo on your comment about Games 2 Trains. I would love to see that place take off as an alternative to eBay, but I have two issues with it that have prevented me from using it thus far.
One being that the listing times are way too long in my opinion. Especially with an auction based site. As a customer I wouldn\'t want to wait that long to see if I have won my items, and as a seller, wouldn\'t want to wait that long to see if I make any money. I think the fact that eBay\'s auction format is no longer than 7 days does two things; first is that it gives the average consumer their purchase sooner and two it makes the seller their money quicker.
Two is that they don\'t have the CMON auction feature. That alone increases my potential sales by around 600%. I have heard that they are working on adding it but not sure how that is going.

Quick edit, you guys are lucky you haven\'t been hit with a \"Item Not As Described\" dispute on Pay Pal yet. There is virtually no way to combat that as far as what documentation you can provide, so only way out is satisfying the now probably quite unsatisfied customer. Long story short, be sure to cover your asses with the best descriptions you possibly can as well as good photos.

On a different note, and this may or may not be the right thread to ask, but I have been playing around with the idea of putting up a simple website with info as well as a forum for miniature sellers. Whether eBay, commissions, Games 2 Trains or even manufacturers, just a place to come together, discuss market trends, share tips and help those just starting out selling, and even a centralized place for manufacturers to show off their new releases. Let me know what you guys think.

 

[Shapoopie]

I don\'t know how it works wherever you all live, but over here if you make insured shipping required you get a tracking number that will indicate exactly where the package is and if it has been delivered, therefore eliminating the option of getting jipped out of your hard earned cash.

 

[NGArtStudios]

@Shapoopie: Even with tracking, Pay Pal usually sides with the buyer and there really isn\'t much that can be done.

 

[Joek]

So, the buyer has left me positive feedback which should be the trigger to take my money off hold. Has this been done? No. I\'ve sent an email to Paypal, but I don\'t have high hopes for it - they usually send me out stock responses which never seem to have much relationship with what I want

 

[mickc22]

.........you know what I think

I still use paypal to receive payments, but that\'s all they can do is process the payment

there\'s no final valuation fees, ever and the listing fees are minuscule

go on click the banner

 

[mickc22]

Originally posted by airhead
try selling something they consider dodgy (pistol parts - not weapons) and have your bank account locked up...with no human to contact.

..or Games Workshop staff T-shirts (old red ones)

 

[mickc22]

Originally posted by NGArtStudios


Scott, to echo on your comment about Games 2 Trains. I would love to see that place take off as an alternative to eBay, but I have two issues with it that have prevented me from using it thus far.
One being that the listing times are way too long in my opinion. Especially with an auction based site.

What are you talking about auction listings can be from 3-14 days ??? BIN\'s have longer listing times but that\'s normal if you are selling multiple stock items


As a customer I wouldn\'t want to wait that long to see if I have won my items, and as a seller, wouldn\'t want to wait that long to see if I make any money. I think the fact that eBay\'s auction format is no longer than 7 days does two things; first is that it gives the average consumer their purchase sooner and two it makes the seller their money quicker.
Two is that they don\'t have the CMON auction feature. That alone increases my potential sales by around 600%. I have heard that they are working on adding it but not sure how that is going.


it needs more of us asking for it

............................................................

 

[JesterzUSMC]

My biggest beef with WarGamesMarket/Games 2 Trains:

When I sign in, if I navigate to more than 3 pages, I have to log in again.

That and the lack of CMON support.

I mean really us asking for it hasn\'t helped.
It\'s up to whoever owns G2G to contact and contract with Chern Ann to get the coding up and integrated.

There has been a few thread about getting this to happen.
We\'ve done our part.

 

[StarFyre]

I\'ve normally done disputes through my bank (credit card) since it\'s better than the dispute process through paypal/ebay.

When i ship my large army sales on ebay or commission work, i tell people in the listing or via email, it has to be through a trackable service, even if it costs like $200, it\'s that or they have to drive here to pick it up.

That is what will be used to determine if the person got the goods or not, so it\'s safer that way.

Sanjay

 

[Queenoftheunifrogs]

i have a freind who is having the same problem with ebay. paypal is still not paying her her money when she has sold things even though shes got 100% buyers feedback for years, just beause of that stupid detailed seller reveiw thing. she can barely afford to send the item out without being paid first but the only way to get them to send the money faster is to have more then 10 of those detailed seller things, its ridiculous. what i want to know is does paypal take the money out of the buyers account and hold it until they give it to the seller? if the buyer is a student like me and on a really tight budget it can really screw up your planning for money if the money doesnt go out straight away and you accidentally spend it which overdraws your account...then you get fees for that, thats happened to me because of paypal screwing up and taking money out of the wrong account before.
i can see this driving a lot of new sellers away

 

[JesterzUSMC]

I use ebay the way it was meant to be used.

I use it to get rid of my crap!

lollollollollollol
lollollollollollollollollollollol

 

[NGArtStudios]

@Mick - Sorry, I\'ve only seen the long auctions on Games 2 Trains and never anything from 3 to 14 days so didn\'t know there was that option.

Another reason for Pay Pal blocking these transactions, what kind of Pay Pal accounts are you guys using? Are they verified? If not that may also be the reason.

 

[Gilvan Blight]

Originally posted by NGArtStudiosOn a different note, and this may or may not be the right thread to ask, but I have been playing around with the idea of putting up a simple website with info as well as a forum for miniature sellers. Whether eBay, commissions, Games 2 Trains or even manufacturers, just a place to come together, discuss market trends, share tips and help those just starting out selling, and even a centralized place for manufacturers to show off their new releases. Let me know what you guys think.

Personally I think that is something that should be more of a part of this site and not another one. I hate having to go to 18 different places on the web to acomplish what I want to do, I much prefer going to 1 place and staying there.


Re: PayPal/eBay been using it pretty much since it launched and never had them hold money before. I remember having to verify my address and bank account into some 9 years ago, could that be the problem?

EDIT: WTF! When did ebay start putting sponsored ad\'s on their site?!? How fair is this to a seller? It\'s like they are saying \"don\'t buy off our sellers, buy off our sponsors\" Right in the middle of people\'s aucitons too. Sure it seems like it\'s only completed auctions. Still why would I look to see if the seller is selling the same item in another auction if there\'s a link right there to a potentially cheaper copy from a Big Box?