Why should a sculpt affect the score?

[brombz]

Some contributors to these discussions seem to be saying that the sculpt is - or should be - a consideration when scoring minis.
I agree that a conversion can enahnce a model and push up the score. It takes skill and not everyone can do a good job. But what has the sculpt got to do with the painter?
Everyone knows that when a lesser mortal and a paint guru ( ) paint the same model you get 2 different models .. OR ... you see a model painted in a way and say: \"that\'s one untalented sculptor\" then you see the same model painted in a different way and your jaw drops ...
i hope i haven\'t lost you .... :moon:
(I know the moonie has nothing to do with it but i like it)

 

[Flashman14]

The mini IS the sculpt . . I don\'t see how one can seperate it from itself . . . Obviously paint jobs can transcend it but the sculpt is the the basis from which to start from.

Take Kuramaru - he\'s what I call an alchemist: he knows how to turn s*** into gold. :flip:

His technique is down cold so all his minis should get the same score if we go strictly on paintjob?? But the sculpt is where the difference lies - it has to be another factor in the voting otherwise we wouldn\'t need to look at the mini - just vote accordingly when the name comes up.

But I agree with you that materially the painter often has little to no effect on the sculpt but his selection of that mini says something about his style and or interests.

 

[Flashman14]

After some reflection:
Before paint is even applied, some minis are cooler than others. To focus only on what the painter/converter contributes is too narrow a focus . . .
Certainly this is a matter of opinion and I am sure others hold that only painter/converter efforts should be considered. As an idea, it\'s not invalid as far as I can tell this rainy morning, but it seems too restrictive to me . . .

 

[brombz]

sculpt vs paintjob

Hi flashman! it\'s interesting you should mention Kuromaru....
take Grom, to begin with ... everybody was whining about what a ghastly model ugly this nasty that etc ... and see what he did with it ...
same for the skeleton/worm thing... probably looks like a major miscast unpainted ...
and lastly the witch elf .... :wow: ...and drooling

and what you said about ppl could simply go voting by names .... isn\'t that what they do already? some \"paint stars\" are highly overrated, i can tell you.

 

[Shroud]

Reality is, some sculpts are \"ugly\" to some people regardless of the paint job. Those people are not likely to throw a high score in the \"ugly sculpt\'s\" direction

 

[Otter]

Think of it as a canvas... An artist can either go out and find a linen canvas that is tight and primed well, or can staple some cheap polyester black velvet to a wall and go to town. The same painting techniques might be used on both, but the final appearance will be EXTREMELY different.

Converting is (IMO) slapping a nice coat of primer over black velvet and turning it into canvas... some people are really good at this, other people let the velvet stick through.

- Otter
\"Never send a ferret to do a weasel\'s work\"

 

[finn17]

Explicating the implications...

I look at some sculpts and wonder why anyone, anywhere, ever bothers to paint them. I can look at others and my fingers itch (partially with frustration because I know that I will never be able to realise the image in my head due to my own limitations). Part of the mini painters skill is in realising the potential contained within the sculpt. This doesn\'t always mean that a \'high value\' sculpt will get good marks but it is a good starting point. Conversely, a \'low value\' sculpt must have a certain ceiling where it is hard to award those rare high marks. For example: could a standard space marine, I pick this because IMO it is a boring, ubiquitous mini with which everyone must be familiar, ever get (lots of) votes in the 8\'s and 9\'s? If it does, what does that tell you about the painter?

The images that most impress me are the ones where a \'low value\' sculpt has been turned into something else by the skill of the painter. There is a whole thread: \'Boring into art\' and even a little competition going on about this very topic:bouncy:

 

[mouse]

hmmm....

everyone does have a point or so in their stated case.

In some instances, a good sculpt is a basis for quality art. In other cases, a moderate sculpt can also produce stunning results!

According to what finn said, that\'s very true.

In the past, artists (Eg. painter such as Van Gogh - hope I spell it right) didn\'t have the equipments as artists have nowadays. Yet, with whatever limited resources, he can also produce incredible images.

A good conversion or sculpt is also a form of art. Mini painting (or maybe I should say mini art) comprisings of everything from conversion (if possible or capable), downright sculpting, cleaning the mini, priming, painting, varnishing, basing and even presentation. That\'s all part and parcel of mini \"art\".

IMHO, I also agree that the normal spacemarine is \"boring\". However, sculptors created various version of it (Eg. Grey Knight, Wolf Space Marine, Emperor\'s Champion) and some of us here even went to the extent of converting some of them into something unique. A finished piece can also be awe-inspiring too.

/*I think I lost myself*/

In summary, a good sculpt (whether done by the manufacturer or custom performed by the incumbent) can be a consideration for scoring.

 

[Infidel Castro]

CMON means...

Cool Mini or Not...

It\'s the whole package isn\'t it? It\'s the sculpt, the painting, conversions (to a lesser extent?) and what the painter puts into the piece (ideas, style, etc.).

You can\'t paint without the sculptor sculpting the mini, so, as Otter rightly says, the sculpt itself is the canvas. the quality of the canvas affects the outcome. It certainly has a lot to do with it, though it can at times seem a little unfair when you know you\'ve thrown loads of work into a bog-standard piece and don\'t score quite as highly as another piece that may not be as well painted but...you know what I mean

It\'s all about the choice of the voter, and the voters invariably find a good balance between painting and scuplt job, so can\'t complain

Anyway, a fantastic sculpt may be harder to paint to a higher standard requiring more precision and all that, so it does reflect correctly I think.

Still, as Finn says, go test yourselves on the \'Boring into Art\' thread

Rev my engine.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Ok here\'s my tenpenneth!
We paint miniatures, which are sculptures. Therefore the sculpture has to count. If we are just commenting and voting on a layer of paint then paint on a sheet of canvas. We paint in 3 dimensions, Canvas or other medium is 2, both have their champions and some of the artists here can do both. (Elouchard)
I can\'t draw worth a tuppeny D**n, but that doesn\'t stop me from appreciating the works of Van Gogh, Rosetti and other great masters of the 2 dimensional art.
Now there are good and not so good sculptures. Until recently I would have considered Reaper mini\'s in the latter category. Now, I\'ve radically changed my mind because I purchased one sculpted by Werner Kloke and am looking to purchase a more. Equally there are good mini\'s which are conversions.
I voted and commented on one which was a work in progress, and the artist involved was kind enough to not only take my (and others) suggestions on board, but also give us some credit. But primarily the credit is his due to the work he/she did.
So where do we, as miniature artists draw the line on voting? To my mind there is not difference. I vote for the mini and that will include the sculpture and the paintjob.
If there\'s a conversion involved then great-- more power to the artists elbow. If it\'s a normal mini with an amazing paintjob then also great. The best example I can think of is SaxonAngel\'s use of a Dark Elf Witch as a character, with an Ephemeral sword. Brilliant work Angela!

Now we as artists place our work up for criticsm and/or praise. If it\'s great then great, if its Naff then tell us. But to dismiss a mini just because the sculpture is boring is not taking the context of the site correctly. This is COOLMINIORNOT.COM not COOLPAINTJOB

Here endth the what turned out to be half a rant!

 

[supervike]

my two cents...

The above posters have said my thoughts much more eloquently than I could, so I will just add this:

When I vote on minis, I would tend to give a higher score to a painter who could overcome a bad sculpt.

When I see some of the incredible stuff done with even the poorest of sculpts, it makes me appreciate the artist that much more.

 

[Big Mean Elf]

How can a MINI BE COOL....

...IF IT IS A PIECE OF Shit...sculpting wise?

LOL...:innocent:

I mean pooring perfume on a pig?...same thing in my book.

Peace!

 

[finn17]

A dilemma

I agree with supervike

...and

I agree with BME

Personally I couldn\'t be bothered to paint a bad sculpt, I have too many good sculpts eagerly waiting...

But when I do see a perfectly perfumed fragrant piggie, I can\'t help but admire the artist.:bouncy:

 

[supervike]

pigs in perfume...

Does anybody make a sculpt of a pig wearing perfume?

Now THAT would be a bad sculpt!!lol

 

[finn17]

Close...

There is an old and quite rare sculpt of a flying pig that I have been looking out for for years.

Not quite the same however:flip:

 

[Big Mean Elf]

Pig...girl...perfume.

I could sculpt a farm girl wit nice bling blings and a lil dab of cloths...rideing a \"Pig\"?

LOL

lol

 

[laurence]

The good the bad and the ugly

Its funny \'cause I\'ve never really taken the quality of sculpt into account when voting here at CMON,( or perhaps I have subconsiously). Generally I look out for good blending, highlighting, color scheme etc, when scoring minis. Although I guess when I see a dull mini painted excellently I score it a little higher.

The flying pig miniature sounds like a limited edition Pink Floyd \'Animals\' mini. Lets hope David Gilmour & Roger Waters didn\'t have a falling out over who gets to keep the mini

I really like the sounds of the farm girl mini riding a nicely fragranted pig!!! Sculpt one please

 

[Big Mean Elf]

Hey Man...You Buy & I`ll Fly...

I will...lol...how many you want?


BME poses a seriouse art fart queston...

Qo cute young farm girls need to have the boom boom bodies bearly covered with ripped up jean shorts that are all up (in the rear)and all down (on the belly) the hips...and do they need to have a tied belly shirt that lets the bottoms of them big boobs hang out a bit?

A:YES!

And of course they need to be bear footed and have cute long pony tailes...it should be simple do the point of absurdaty....lol...who the heck wants an ugly skinny flat chested square rumped mud fench girl in a full pair of over alls...

I don`t care how nice the pig smells...lol!


:flame:



And who in the world would want to paint it,uhh the ugly one,that is...?

:innocent:

Peace!

 

[mouse]

Yahoo!!!

Originally posted by Big Mean Elf
I could sculpt a farm girl wit nice bling blings and a lil dab of cloths...rideing a \"Pig\"?

LOL

lol

BME, you\'re the MAN...er...ELF!!!

baaabes.....:|~.......farm baabees....:|~

 

[Big Mean Elf]

Not My Fualt...

Me not responsible lil mouse...I was just going with the crowd and got swept up in it all.....
lol

Not my fualt they want me to sculpt a farm girl...lol!
:innocent:

Peace!