There are a lot of very valid points here, and I do agree with Spacemunkey that a lot of this is opinion based. That being said, I liken mini painting to paint-by-number kits. You can choose which colors to use, be it the colors suggested by the manufacturer to match the original, or you may choose to go your own way. Are you creating art? In my opinion, no. You are creating a material representation of your interpretation of somebody else\'s art. The piece of art is the sculpture itself. Much like the sculptors who create a likeness of an individual using stone, sculptors like Werner Klocke and Sandra Garrity use a different medium, a different scale, but they are creating something, either out of their own imagination, or based on somebody else\'s imagination. The arguement that nothing in minis is fresh and new neglects the fact that there is nothing in any other art form that is entirely new, either. I believe that this is well explained by Mary Shelley in her introduction to Frankenstein. \"Everything must have a beginning...and that beginning must be linked to something that went before. ... Invention, it must be humbly admitted, does not consist in creating out of void, but out of chaos; the materials must, in the first place, be afforded: it can give form to dark shapeless substances but cannot bring into being the substance itself...Invention consists in the capacity of seizing on the capabilities of a subject and in the power of moulding and fashioning ideas suggested to it.\"
Why this obsession with smoothness
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vincegamer
Active member
so taking a sculpted mini and forming something original and unexpected of it, according to Ms. Shelly, would be art.
Which makes me an artist! Now where can I get a beret?
Which makes me an artist! Now where can I get a beret?
There\'s been loads and loads of academical articles about the essence of art and what it is and if you ever try to read one of those it will be perfectly clear to you that mini painting is NOT art, nor will it ever BE art and, furthermore, nor would any mini painter truly WANT it to be art (not after reading those papers anyway... lol)! In my opinion, it\'s a hobby and I\'m perfectly happy about calling it that! 
So, it would seem hard not to agree that photography is an art form...even if you are not taking photos of art. Does that mean we are in fact being more artistic in our photographic rendering of our non-art miniatures, than in the painting itself?
Another point...when I\'ve freehand replicated the 2d image of the mini I just painted onto a large flat base...is this then art and I\'m just junking up that base by sticking the mini itself on there?
Another point...when I\'ve freehand replicated the 2d image of the mini I just painted onto a large flat base...is this then art and I\'m just junking up that base by sticking the mini itself on there?
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
I don\'t know.. some paint minis, some paint on canvas, some take a crap on a pillar. Being an artist is more of a mindset then the actual thing you do. It\'s more about imagination and communicating that imagination. If a definition of art is exclusive it is just because some people wants it to be exclusive.
@Ritual: We are in a postmodern era now, remember? The most used definition of \"what is art?\" today is: \"If an artist says it\'s art, it\'s art.\"
@Spacemunkie: Don\'t treat art so seriously. And don\'t let other people define art for you.
@Ritual: We are in a postmodern era now, remember? The most used definition of \"what is art?\" today is: \"If an artist says it\'s art, it\'s art.\"
@Spacemunkie: Don\'t treat art so seriously. And don\'t let other people define art for you.
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Believe me, I\'ve never treated art seriously. 99% of it is utter bollocks. That was my point (which Anders summed up pretty adeptly...). Painting toy soldiers is little more than advanced painting by numbers......
My perception of what constitutes \'art\' has been built not only through years of study, reading countless books and discussion, but by having to put up with the self-obsessed drivel spouted by the many people I\'ve encountered who consider themselves \'artists\'.
Funny, my official job title is graphic artist. I spend all day producing artwork and yet not a single piece is \'art\'. The word has so many meanings, and yet so little worth if you ask me.
My perception of what constitutes \'art\' has been built not only through years of study, reading countless books and discussion, but by having to put up with the self-obsessed drivel spouted by the many people I\'ve encountered who consider themselves \'artists\'.
Funny, my official job title is graphic artist. I spend all day producing artwork and yet not a single piece is \'art\'. The word has so many meanings, and yet so little worth if you ask me.
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Yeah, all cool, but not quite sci-fi or fantasy minis is it! Again, all of those artists have created works that will provoke a response from pretty much anyone. They\'re confronting some pretty disturbing social issues...
If any part of this hobby is coming close to \'art\' it\'s the sculpting I think. The sculptor has a totally blank canvas and is creating a completely unique expression. Good sculpts require a substantial anatomical knowledge which bears comparison with classical painters and sculptors.
I basically agree that the definition of art is subjective, most of what is called art is generally self indulgent crap.
Also agree about the \"graphic artist\" title which is complete crap. I have that on my business cards also, but I can not remember the last time I made anything that could be art, let alone I was given any room to be creative or expressive. I don\'t know if anything in which everyone else involved in the project has more imput on the final product than the \"artist\" does, could ever be art. All I do is click and drag...mostly, with some technical know how.
Back to mini painting. I\'ve never called myself or claimed to be an artist for it, however I have often refered to it as my artistic or creative outlet. After being a graphic artist all day, where my creativity is bottled up to please the client, it definately works in great for that role. Can someone have a artistic outlet/be artistic, and their final product not be art? Probably. Is that the case here? Well that\'s subjective, and personally I\'m undecided, while it\'s pretty obvious where some people stand.
I however think when people start calling themselves artists, it\'s more about ego and self perception than art.
Also agree about the \"graphic artist\" title which is complete crap. I have that on my business cards also, but I can not remember the last time I made anything that could be art, let alone I was given any room to be creative or expressive. I don\'t know if anything in which everyone else involved in the project has more imput on the final product than the \"artist\" does, could ever be art. All I do is click and drag...mostly, with some technical know how.
Back to mini painting. I\'ve never called myself or claimed to be an artist for it, however I have often refered to it as my artistic or creative outlet. After being a graphic artist all day, where my creativity is bottled up to please the client, it definately works in great for that role. Can someone have a artistic outlet/be artistic, and their final product not be art? Probably. Is that the case here? Well that\'s subjective, and personally I\'m undecided, while it\'s pretty obvious where some people stand.
I however think when people start calling themselves artists, it\'s more about ego and self perception than art.
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Totally agree.
Mini painting is definitely artistic but I see it as more of a craft than anything else. And that to me is certainly not a derisory term, it\'s one to be embraced.
Mini painting is definitely artistic but I see it as more of a craft than anything else. And that to me is certainly not a derisory term, it\'s one to be embraced.
I think we all have different ideas of what an artist is, or should be.
I respect your opinions, mine are just slightly different in some respects.
I would like to mention an artist called Michaelangelo Buonarroti
http://www.michelangelo.com/buon/bio-index2.html
He was I think we would all agree an artist. He is known for his sculptures of the human form, translated from his understanding of human anatomy,and also his paintings, some of which were painted on other artists (Architects) buildings, and mostly done for clients.
Please don\'t get me wrong I am not suggesting that I am an Artist of mini\'s, that would be just daft. I am just a beginner in this medium. I\'m just saying, and I wont mention anyones name here, just in case they disagree, that some of the best on here, I would call Artists, as they scupt from an extreme understanding of human anatomy, paint extrordinary works, which have meaning/themes within them, and above all, for me, when I see there works, just make me look in awe at the creations they have produced. Just look at Michaelangelo\'s sculpting, then remember or compare the best scupt on here you have ever seen, is it any less a work of Art? Or one of his paintings, then your favorite on here, I get the same feeling when I look upon them both.
I\'m not saying these people should be put higher than the rest of us, we are all equal under god, however that does not mean that we cannot respect them for the works they have produced,
Indeed the voting and judging at competitions for example are by definition saying how they value their work, and can if we wish, indeed look up to as artists.
I am sure michaelangelo took lessons, and or had a teacher, and also taught others. He may of even had fanboys
Its only a word after all, Artist, but for me it is a word that inspires, what a sad world it would be without art.
I respect your opinions, mine are just slightly different in some respects.
I would like to mention an artist called Michaelangelo Buonarroti
http://www.michelangelo.com/buon/bio-index2.html
He was I think we would all agree an artist. He is known for his sculptures of the human form, translated from his understanding of human anatomy,and also his paintings, some of which were painted on other artists (Architects) buildings, and mostly done for clients.
Please don\'t get me wrong I am not suggesting that I am an Artist of mini\'s, that would be just daft. I am just a beginner in this medium. I\'m just saying, and I wont mention anyones name here, just in case they disagree, that some of the best on here, I would call Artists, as they scupt from an extreme understanding of human anatomy, paint extrordinary works, which have meaning/themes within them, and above all, for me, when I see there works, just make me look in awe at the creations they have produced. Just look at Michaelangelo\'s sculpting, then remember or compare the best scupt on here you have ever seen, is it any less a work of Art? Or one of his paintings, then your favorite on here, I get the same feeling when I look upon them both.
I\'m not saying these people should be put higher than the rest of us, we are all equal under god, however that does not mean that we cannot respect them for the works they have produced,
Indeed the voting and judging at competitions for example are by definition saying how they value their work, and can if we wish, indeed look up to as artists.
I am sure michaelangelo took lessons, and or had a teacher, and also taught others. He may of even had fanboys
Its only a word after all, Artist, but for me it is a word that inspires, what a sad world it would be without art.
The meaning of the word \'art\' has changed during history and with the views on art today (by art people, that is) Michelangelo\'s work would probably be sneered upon if he lived today. \'Real\' art is not about perfecting your crafts today. Nor is it about depicting things.
I have several friends who study and practice \'real\' art and through them I have some insight to what the established art institutions value in art, what their views on the essence of art is and what importance the crafts (like painting or sculpting) are given. With that insight in mind I feel a lot more comfortable not using the \'art\' term for what I do. I want nothing to do with that area.
I have several friends who study and practice \'real\' art and through them I have some insight to what the established art institutions value in art, what their views on the essence of art is and what importance the crafts (like painting or sculpting) are given. With that insight in mind I feel a lot more comfortable not using the \'art\' term for what I do. I want nothing to do with that area.
Valid point Ritual, however I did not mean you as an artist, although I love your mini painting, especially the recent ones, Dionne, and the griffin magistrate.
Michaelangelo not an artist, I must disagree strongly with this statement. Next you\'ll be telling me that there is no god, (joke)
Michaelangelo not an artist, I must disagree strongly with this statement. Next you\'ll be telling me that there is no god, (joke)
I understood you did not mean me as an artist, and I don\'t say Michelangelo is not an artist. I only say that he would very likely be regarded as old-fashioned and uninteresting by the art institutions if he lived today.Originally posted by krom1415
Valid point Ritual, however I did not mean you as an artist, although I love your mini painting, especially the recent ones, Dionne, and the griffin magistrate. Thanks!
Michaelangelo not an artist, I must disagree strongly with this statement. Next you\'ll be telling me that there is no god, (joke)
I won\'t go into the god issue, though...
vincegamer
They already have. This is hard to describe without pics, but a friend of mine (who happened to be an artist) painted his minis in a very impressionistic style.
He used a very broad application of colour. The ones that stood out were his genestealers, painted for play, all the colour was on the top, the underside was black pretty much, up close they looked a little rough but from a little way away they looked awesome, you could see he had an eye for how light and colour interacted and how this could be used on the mini for maximum effect.
I\'m pretty sure I\'ve seen other people who paint in a similar way, but I can\'t think of a specific example.
They already have. This is hard to describe without pics, but a friend of mine (who happened to be an artist) painted his minis in a very impressionistic style.
He used a very broad application of colour. The ones that stood out were his genestealers, painted for play, all the colour was on the top, the underside was black pretty much, up close they looked a little rough but from a little way away they looked awesome, you could see he had an eye for how light and colour interacted and how this could be used on the mini for maximum effect.
I\'m pretty sure I\'ve seen other people who paint in a similar way, but I can\'t think of a specific example.
Originally posted by green stuff
But is miniature painting really art?
Boy would Arthur have a bunch to say about that
aaaaaaaaargh my fingers are itching......don\'t get me started on that or I\'ll have to bore you all to sleep with klein and manzoni :twisted:
( But I do have an article coming up, probably the only wrriten by me that I\'ll ever post
)