green stuff
Active member
@Arthur : :kiss:
Why this obsession with smoothness
- Thread starter SebastianRushworth
- Start date
my thoughts...
I think the issue is skill vs realism.
In the real world, blending is rare. I am looking around my room right now, and very few things have a nice blend in the shade/color. Shadows are all hard edged, etc.
Even outdoors, with a far away light source (sun), blends are rare.
Looking at chrome rims on cars, etc, most of the time it\'s not smooth; the reflections/zones on the metal.
Technically, if you could paint a miniature so well, that people couldn\'t tell it was a real human or not, then youv\'e done the best paint job possible. But to do that, you would need to emulate real life; not blend it to make it look flawless
Sanjay
I think the issue is skill vs realism.
In the real world, blending is rare. I am looking around my room right now, and very few things have a nice blend in the shade/color. Shadows are all hard edged, etc.
Even outdoors, with a far away light source (sun), blends are rare.
Looking at chrome rims on cars, etc, most of the time it\'s not smooth; the reflections/zones on the metal.
Technically, if you could paint a miniature so well, that people couldn\'t tell it was a real human or not, then youv\'e done the best paint job possible. But to do that, you would need to emulate real life; not blend it to make it look flawless
Sanjay
Looking around my office right now, there are smooth transitions everywhere. The aluminium frames of the whiteboard and doorframe, my colleague\'s monitor, my abused stack of paper trays. Even the shadows made by the diffused light from the window have soft edges. The tea stains inside my mug go from a strong brown to a less saturated brown in the light. The glass surface of my desk is absolutely indescribable, as is my lunch.
Direct light makes for hard shadows on hard edges and flat surfaces, and for areas of flat colour too. But every curved surface I can see has smooth transitions from dark to light.
I\'m almost sorry I had a look at my desk - it\'s a disgrace. I have no idea how long those coffee stains have been there, or indeed whether it\'s actually coffee or not... uh-oh, I think I saw something move...
Direct light makes for hard shadows on hard edges and flat surfaces, and for areas of flat colour too. But every curved surface I can see has smooth transitions from dark to light.
I\'m almost sorry I had a look at my desk - it\'s a disgrace.
I have no idea how long those coffee stains have been there, or indeed whether it\'s actually coffee or not... uh-oh, I think I saw something move...Legacy Account
Active member
@Krom: You\'re pushing your luck comparing anything on this site to Michelangelo\'s \'David\'....
As for him being a great painter, the only reason he got the commission for the Sistine Chapel was because Raphael, Da Vinci et al were taking the piss by putting him forward for something he was reputedly not very good at. Indeed if it wasn\'t for his assistant, it is doubtful whether he\'d have finished the thing at all, and it would certainly all have rotted off without his assistant creating a decent plaster mix. It has even been suggested that Michelangelo did very little of the work himself.....
So yes, a great artist, but history keeps what it likes, and discards what it doesn\'t.
As for him being a great painter, the only reason he got the commission for the Sistine Chapel was because Raphael, Da Vinci et al were taking the piss by putting him forward for something he was reputedly not very good at. Indeed if it wasn\'t for his assistant, it is doubtful whether he\'d have finished the thing at all, and it would certainly all have rotted off without his assistant creating a decent plaster mix. It has even been suggested that Michelangelo did very little of the work himself.....
So yes, a great artist, but history keeps what it likes, and discards what it doesn\'t.
why, can we not compare, is it not sculpture, and therefore as valid a piece of art as another, surely art/beauty is in the eye of the beholder?
When we enter an art gallery we are asked to open our minds to what we see, not go in there with pre concieved ideas of what art is or should be.
Did Michaelangelo\'s assistant do all of his sculptures and paintings? if so, he indeed was a great artist as well
When we enter an art gallery we are asked to open our minds to what we see, not go in there with pre concieved ideas of what art is or should be.
Did Michaelangelo\'s assistant do all of his sculptures and paintings? if so, he indeed was a great artist as well
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
@Spacemunkie: As I\'ve said. Your taking art and artists too seriously. If you wouldn\'t take it seriously you wouldn\'t be having this \"defining art\" discussion and trying to keep everyone in their place. I doubt michelangelo could pull off what some of the people of this place do. But that is really besides the point.
I would never call myself an \"artist\" in the swedish word.. because it\'s all too filled up with.. sh*te as you\'ve described already. But I have no problems calling myself an artist in the english word as I don\'t have a cultural relationship to the word. If I say that art is a way of communicating your imagination ( I could give a longer definition) are you then agreeing that you are an artist? If so we are only having a difference in defining the word \'art\'.
@starfyre: I think you need to define what you mean by blending. a quick progression of light is still a progression. I can give you picture examples so that we can compare definitions.
I would never call myself an \"artist\" in the swedish word.. because it\'s all too filled up with.. sh*te as you\'ve described already. But I have no problems calling myself an artist in the english word as I don\'t have a cultural relationship to the word. If I say that art is a way of communicating your imagination ( I could give a longer definition) are you then agreeing that you are an artist? If so we are only having a difference in defining the word \'art\'.
@starfyre: I think you need to define what you mean by blending. a quick progression of light is still a progression. I can give you picture examples so that we can compare definitions.
Tinweasel
Member
IMO, I think for me to consider something \"art,\" it needs to transcend its material. Somebody mentioned that they work in graphic design and produce stuff all day but would never consider it \"art\" - from my perspective, that\'s because it is being created with the specific intent of being functional, or selling something, or simply informing.
A urinal? The question is not whether or not its a urinal in order for me to consider it art, but what the significance is supposed to be. A urinal in a bathroom stall - not art. A urinal worn as a hat on a sculped statue of the Devil - controversial and wierd... I\'d also say it maybe has some artistic merit. (No idea what the hell kinda statement it\'d make, either, but I\'d wager it would certainly provoke some sort of reaction in the viewer.)
Tabletop miniatures? If you\'re just painting \'em up to represent tokens or markers or troops on a table for a game, well, the same effect could be achieved by a pile of strategically colored Cheetos. On the other hand, if this 1 1/2\" tall figure is painted to look like a realistic rendition of a monstrous beastie with dripping saliva, wet skin, and weathering effects that make it appear alive - yeah, I\'d say that\'s art as it transcends the functionality of the miniature itself.
I think this whole discussion of smooth blending, transitions, lighting effect, et al pretty much boils down to what the artist/miniature painter is trying to get across and how well they accomplish the desired effect.
Victoria Lamb\'s Fiery Angel, for example: IMO, damned if it doesn\'t look like a fiery combat between a mechanical monster and a woman soaring above it. Does it matter if much of the work is essentially simple contrast between light areas and dark areas? Not really.
How\'s about well-done SENMM effects? If it\'s intended to be a realistic chrome effect, looks like a realistic chrome effect, and it\'s all neatly painted on a game token 2\" tall - I\'d say smooth gradiations of color are necessary to get across the intended realism of the thing. Could it be painted in broad stripes? Sure, but it\'d lose a lot of its effectiveness.
My own example:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/121720
I certainly don\'t consider myself in the league of a lot of the great painters on here, and I definitely think there\'s a lot I could do better on this guy on another go-round - I don\'t feel I am by any means a world-class painter. Do I feel that the weathering effects I tried on the figure make it appear somewhat realistic and give this 1\" tall PP Deathripper a sense of real \"presence\" in the little \"universe\" I crafted for him on the base? Yeah, I kinda do... Is it art? I dunno, but I\'d say I put a fair amount of painting effort into a token for a game I\'ve never had the opportunity to yet play.
A urinal? The question is not whether or not its a urinal in order for me to consider it art, but what the significance is supposed to be. A urinal in a bathroom stall - not art. A urinal worn as a hat on a sculped statue of the Devil - controversial and wierd... I\'d also say it maybe has some artistic merit. (No idea what the hell kinda statement it\'d make, either, but I\'d wager it would certainly provoke some sort of reaction in the viewer.)
Tabletop miniatures? If you\'re just painting \'em up to represent tokens or markers or troops on a table for a game, well, the same effect could be achieved by a pile of strategically colored Cheetos. On the other hand, if this 1 1/2\" tall figure is painted to look like a realistic rendition of a monstrous beastie with dripping saliva, wet skin, and weathering effects that make it appear alive - yeah, I\'d say that\'s art as it transcends the functionality of the miniature itself.
I think this whole discussion of smooth blending, transitions, lighting effect, et al pretty much boils down to what the artist/miniature painter is trying to get across and how well they accomplish the desired effect.
Victoria Lamb\'s Fiery Angel, for example: IMO, damned if it doesn\'t look like a fiery combat between a mechanical monster and a woman soaring above it. Does it matter if much of the work is essentially simple contrast between light areas and dark areas? Not really.
How\'s about well-done SENMM effects? If it\'s intended to be a realistic chrome effect, looks like a realistic chrome effect, and it\'s all neatly painted on a game token 2\" tall - I\'d say smooth gradiations of color are necessary to get across the intended realism of the thing. Could it be painted in broad stripes? Sure, but it\'d lose a lot of its effectiveness.
My own example:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/121720
I certainly don\'t consider myself in the league of a lot of the great painters on here, and I definitely think there\'s a lot I could do better on this guy on another go-round - I don\'t feel I am by any means a world-class painter. Do I feel that the weathering effects I tried on the figure make it appear somewhat realistic and give this 1\" tall PP Deathripper a sense of real \"presence\" in the little \"universe\" I crafted for him on the base? Yeah, I kinda do... Is it art? I dunno, but I\'d say I put a fair amount of painting effort into a token for a game I\'ve never had the opportunity to yet play.
vincegamer
Active member
The Urinal
I think the person who first suggested a urinal as art in this thread was talking about this:
Duchamp\'s Fountain
I think the person who first suggested a urinal as art in this thread was talking about this:
Duchamp\'s Fountain
Infidel Castro
New member
Thank you sir, it\'s a hobby/pastime. Therefore I\'d say it\'s a craft.
However, the bigger the minis get the more I see them as art. The larger stuff has some amazing work put against it. One chap put up some links to a fella who had the guys with the air-balloon basket the other day and that kind of poise and skill made me see beyond the obvious and think \'almost art\' in the best sense
philologus
Subgenius
I can see many different definitions of art. If you enjoy creating something it can be argued that thing is art. It becomes crap when my tax dollars fund it:cussing:
