Alien Contact: Controversial Subject matter.

Chern Ann

Only when they're green
Staff member
Sorry again this is a discussion about a piece that depicts rape - not sex. If you dont know the difference well thats a worry no matter what culture you are from.

You are making a distinction between sex, violence and sexual violence. I do not see a difference between violence and sexual violence, they are either both inherently unacceptable to portray, or both are inherently acceptable as subjects (leaving aside the actual execution). Anything else is illogical.

Again I call you as avoiding the reality that CMON is an open site that does not require an even rudimentary test from people either viewing it or joining it to give proof of age.

Why should we be required to get proof of age after telling people we aren't a children's site? Does Steampowered.com's use of a "enter your date of birth" before viewing R rated game trailers actually make you feel better? Isn't this the same as the "forbidden fruit" argument you were spouting earlier?

What exactly are you proposing? That CoolMiniOrNot actively police the ages of participants and casual viewers? How would you suggest we do this, keeping in mind easily circumvented checks smack of cheap pandering to the "concerned public" and are effectively no protection at all? Should we ask people to mail in their IDs? Do I need to provide as much identification to get on to CoolMiniOrNot as a I do to get on to my stock trading account?

Would you let your children on to bbcnews.com unguided and unsupervised? Should they censor their news on genocide, rape and murder? Are you suggesting that everyone on the forums not talk about adult topics because heaven forbid a child may be poking about? Perhaps you should take a visit to 4chan, or frothers, or any other adult forum and ask them to protect the children too? Why not write GW and ask them to stop putting genocide and torture themes into their game?

The "reality" is, that parents are not supervising what their children are doing. I call bullshit on that, it's not my job to look after their children for them. If you are looking after your children and supervising their use of the Internet, why can't other parents do it? Netnanny is a simple install; just put in CoolMiniOrNot.com and impressionable kiddies won't be able to view it. Might as well put in Games-workshop.com in there as well while you're at it.

Just because I engage in discussions on the topic and respond to your concerns does not make it any less annoying to me that you expect CoolMiniOrNot to be held to a higher standard than Games Workshop, or your incessant attempts to argue bankrupt points by repeating yourself. Taking a few quotes out of context, not addressing other parts of the discussion are what? Tacit agreement? Ostrich-like blindness? Who knows? Do you?

Again, please tell me where you think the line of responsibility lies. I do not think it is my responsibility to research child safe surfing practices and protection for my adult site on the behalf of the unwashed masses when a quick Google search easily throws out dozens of solutions. Nor will I implement ineffective controls which are little better than the honor system so you can feel better; a NSFW filter is meant for adults to safely browse sites without running afoul of common policies of most companies against the consumption of pornography on company equipment. It is not the same as child proofing a site.

Note: A site for adults is not the same as a sex site.
 
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Chern Ann

Only when they're green
Staff member
One other thing, attempting to join two unrelated arguments:
"1. This diorama should not be viewable on the site (by anybody)."
and
"2. This diorama should not be viewable by children."

is completely without merit. As an adult, because you are offended by something, does not give you the right to bring up the "think of the children" argument of last resort. It is intellectual cowardice of the lowest order, and has in the past variously lead to the burning of books, paintings, the vandalism of priceless Roman/Greek artifacts and the banning of Dungeons and Dragons and Harry Potter. If you can't argue a point without resorting to this, then you really have no point to argue.
 

wejee

New member
i know i'm new here so my opinions will likely be overlooked by many, but I am not new to the world of art, and am very much an active member in the art community (I'm a noise musician, make and sell tapes and run a label). I can tell you that this is peanuts in terms of content. I've seen noise "art" records with the words "hang the n****r" written across it... i'm actually not going to even go into any of the other things i've seen within my particular art community, out of context it would be seen as blatant, straightforward shock and nothing else, and trust me TONS of discussion similar to the one about this particular diorama surfaces within the sound-art community.

This is a VERY well thought out diorama, it is NOT by ANY MEANS just shock value. It tells a complete story, provokes the viewer (obviously! look at how many posts this has gotten!), and asks more questions than it gives answers to. Censoring this incredible piece of art would be the real shocking, tasteless thing.

Put a filter on the site so kids don't accidentally see it, but let it still be available for people with open minds and rational reasoning.
 

DrEvilmonki

Active member
You are making a distinction between sex, violence and sexual violence. I do not see a difference between violence and sexual violence, they are either both inherently unacceptable to portray, or both are inherently acceptable as subjects (leaving aside the actual execution). Anything else is illogical.

Who the fuck are you - Spock? Just because you dont see a distinction does not make an argument that there is a distinction invalid.

Why should we be required to get proof of age after telling people we aren't a children's site?

Type in www.coolminiornot.com Where exactly does it state that this isnt a childrens site or that it contains adult material? Oh it doesnt.

Type in Does Steampowered.com's use of a "enter your date of birth" before viewing R rated game trailers actually make you feel better? Isn't this the same as the "forbidden fruit" argument you were spouting earlier?

Ummm what forbidden fruit argument? Maybe you have me confused with someone else.

What exactly are you proposing? That CoolMiniOrNot actively police the ages of participants and casual viewers? How would you suggest we do this, keeping in mind easily circumvented checks smack of cheap pandering to the "concerned public" and are effectively no protection at all? Should we ask people to mail in their IDs? Do I need to provide as much identification to get on to CoolMiniOrNot as a I do to get on to my stock trading account?

If you bothered to read my posts I wouldnt have to repeat myself. As I stated before I do think there could be a bit more of an effort on the part of CMON to shield adult content better. (you may even note that I said adult content not sexual content).
I do agree that a nsfw button for stuff like this would be nice.

Would you let your children on to bbcnews.com unguided and unsupervised?
My children are 6 and 4 so tend not to spend to much time on the bbc news site. Probably when they are older I may have to give them some guidance eh

Should they censor their news on genocide, rape and murder?
They do sensor their news on all of those things.

Are you suggesting that everyone on the forums not talk about adult topics because heaven forbid a child may be poking about?
No and I never suggested such a thing.

Perhaps you should take visit to 4chan, or frothers, or any other adult forum and ask them to protect the children too?
This is a discussion about CMON and one of the submissions to it. I could not care less about frothers or any other site as I dont spend time there.


Why not write GW and ask them to stop putting genocide and torture themes into their game?

Because I dont have any issue with those themes or the sexual themes around slaneesh. But then GW tend to be suggestive instead of descriptive.
This is a discussion about CMON and one of the submissions to it. I could not care less about frothers or any other site as I dont spend time there.

The "reality" is, that parents are not supervising what their children are doing. I call bullshit on that, it's not my job to look after their children for them. If you are looking after your children and supervising their use of the Internet, why can't other parents do it? Netnanny is a simple install; just put in CoolMiniOrNot.com and impressionable kiddies won't be able to view it. Might as well put in Games-workshop.com in there as well while you're at it.

Most parents will not be aware of the adult content of this site (there is no warning on the front page - oh whoops just repeated myself again), toy soldiers = kids games in most peoples minds. Games- workshop doesnt have full frontal nudity or pictures of violence that appoaches what you would find here.

Just because I engage in discussions on the topic and respond to your concerns does not make it any less annoying to me that you expect CoolMiniOrNot to be held to a higher standard than Games Workshop
Honestly what the fuck? Show me the full frontal nudity on GW, show me the pictures of eviscerated people. The content on here is more adult than GW.

your incessant attempts to argue bankrupt points by repeating yourself
So because you disagree my points are bankrupt? Good to know

Taking a few quotes out of context,
such as?

not addressing other parts of the discussion are what? [/qoute]

So I have to answer every point you make in every post - fuck off.

[Tacit agreement? Ostrich-like blindness?
Tacit agreement with what? Ostrich-like blindness to what? Man throwing random words at the screen, do you think you are Glenn Beck?

Again, please tell me where you think the line of responsibility lies.
Hang on I thought I wasnt allowed to repeat myself?

I do not think it is my responsibility to research child safe surfing practices and protection for my adult site on the behalf of the unwashed masses when a quick Google search easily throws out dozens of solutions.
So what is on your site and how people interact with it isnt your responsibility? Nice ownership there.

Note: A site for adults is not the same as a sex site.

hmmm I think I said something pretty similar just a few posts ago. I cant repeat myself but you can copy me?
 

cassar

BALLSCRATCHER
agreed. holy shit batman! opinions are like penises, its okay to have one, its okay to be proud of it, but dont try n stick it down my throat. this seems to be getting argued above and beyond the call of duty, for the love of god give it a rest.
 

DrEvilmonki

Active member
One other thing, attempting to join two unrelated arguments:
"1. This diorama should not be viewable on the site (by anybody)."
and
"2. This diorama should not be viewable by children."

is completely without merit. As an adult, because you are offended by something, does not give you the right to bring up the "think of the children" argument of last resort. It is intellectual cowardice of the lowest order, and has in the past variously lead to the burning of books, paintings, the vandalism of priceless Roman/Greek artifacts and the banning of Dungeons and Dragons and Harry Potter. If you can't argue a point without resorting to this, then you really have no point to argue.

Oh what melodramatic bullshit. SO people cant make judgment calls on if a subject is suitable for children without it turning into mass hysteria? Man and you have the gall to judge other peoples arguments as being without merit.
 

Chern Ann

Only when they're green
Staff member
Tsk... I take it you no longer wish to be part of this community? Just let me know.
 

wejee

New member
one key difference between this art community and the "sound art" community I am more a part of, is that in sound art is much, MUCH more taboo to get offended, especially when in the sound art community themes such as rape, racism, and violence are extremely commonplace. In THIS community, this taboo seems to not exist so much. Which is why I find this discussion so interesting, because it has a lot of activity from both ends.

I love the fact that we are free to have grown-up discussions about serious matters, but we should also be free to live in a world where people can create grown-up art without censorship. To those who are offended by this art, it's OK to be offended, and it's OK to not like it. That does NOT mean it is OK to banish it.
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Oh now that is funny. He agrues that his site should be open for adult comment but I cant say fuck?

No YOU can say F*ck, but I prefer not to, in print.

My point is that you are going past the point of a rational discussion and into temper motivated rude ranting.
So therefore you need to step away from this and CALM DOWN.
 

DrEvilmonki

Active member
No YOU can say F*ck, but I prefer not to, in print.

My point is that you are going past the point of a rational discussion and into temper motivated rude ranting.
So therefore you need to step away from this and CALM DOWN.

Fair enough, I will say I disagree with how you read it.
 
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Chern Ann

Only when they're green
Staff member
Apparently you feel that graphic full frontal nudity is worse than non-graphic (and rather sneaky) glorification of genocide, violence etc. Fair enough, it doesn't make sense to me, you can maintain that standard on your own sites, no doubt the KKK's various sites qualify as non-adult to you due to the lack of violent pictures as opposed to violent thoughts.

So far, no one on this thread has been able to explain what the difference is between sexual violence and violence, or graphic violent death and implied rape, or boobies versus beheadings. I still haven't seen one that is logically consistent, and calling me names doesn't automatically make things more coherent.

As for GW not being obviously adult while still espousing adult themes of genocide etc, you actually think this is better? At least here you get tits right on the front page, if that's the thing that sets of your parent radar.

In truth, there are hundreds of thousands of sites with similar content profiles to CoolMiniOrNot, in various languages and not just English. The argument from parental ignorance still holds no water. If you are so concerned about other people's children, then educate them (Netnanny can be set to whitelist by the way, so only approved sites load, of which I doubt CoolMiniOrNot will be one of). I note that you didn't address the fact that news sites have far worse adult content, which has the added bonus of being real.

Finally, making a judgement call about what is acceptable to children is exactly what I'm doing. I'm saying the entire site is not appropriate for children. Any time you rub up against adults in interactions automatically disqualifies a site as being child safe. Should I read PMs to make sure no kiddies are being groomed by toy soldier peddling pedophiles? Seems like a perfect place to do it, to be honest. From the basis that none of this is child safe, what are your argument then? I'm outright asking you and I haven't got an answer beyond "rape in any shape or form is unacceptable subject matter."

I have no problem discussing anything with you if you are rational and consistent. If you insist on being a rude dick get off my board.
 
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