Alien Contact: Controversial Subject matter.

[Roy Rogers]

See how easy it is to become the center of attention on this site?
Predictable, disappointing, but very predictable...
And to clarify, I stated that it was illegal to post images of actual rape scenes, and essentially, where does the line get drawn? This diorama is a potential gateway to every sexually deprived cave dweller out there with a paint brush. Why can't anyone see the inherent dangers of creating, displaying, and condoning (cool mini) this type of miniature?

By cool mini displaying it (evidently lacking a moral edit button?), they are telling all who view it, that this type of thing is acceptable.
I also find it very amusing that everyone from across the pond sees it as ok, and that I am the psycho? Hmm, now that is textbook, country wide lunacy right there for ya!
I guess that rape is only thought of as a destructively, wrong, invasive thing in America?
Remind me to never recommend the U.K. to any of my female friends, yikes!

Oh, and to jesterusmc, you are full of it, if you think that your "girl" is ok with the idea of rape? No woman is "cool" with it.
You should try having it done to yourself, then we will see how cool with it you are...

 

[Talion]

Roy - having been a member here for over 7 years. I can guarantee you, we know when someones crossed the line. This isn't a site still finding it's feet. It's well established and we all know when enough is enough. Have a bit of faith that we aren't idiots.

 

[Swordwind]

And to clarify, I stated that it was illegal to post images of actual rape scenes, and essentially, where does the line get drawn?

Well one is a picture of a real life, horrific crime. The other is a collection of plastic, resin and modelling putty glued to clay and wood.

This diorama is a potential gateway to every sexually deprived cave dweller out there with a paint brush.

Oh please, you can find far far far worse than this scene by simply typing Anime into google images without the safety filter on.

I also find it very amusing that everyone from across the pond sees it as ok, and that I am the psycho? Hmm, now that is textbook, country wide lunacy right there for ya!
I guess that rape is only thought of as a destructively, wrong, invasive thing in America?
Remind me to never recommend the U.K. to any of my female friends, yikes!

Everyone eh? Less than a dozen people posting thier opinion about a little plastic man unbuckling his belt is country wide lunacy eh? My what a very broad brush you have there.

 

[cleen X]

So when rockstar makes games where you can shoot people walking down the street they are saying that such behaviour is acceptable? Or how about Irrational games and Bioshock? Are they trying to tell people that doing drugs to improve yourself is okay? I know these examples are videogames but whats the difference? I also find it strange that you don't react strongly against violence too, as displaying violence would essentially suggest that it is okay?
To display an act is not always saying it is an okay thing to do.
And war movies? Are they suggesting war is okay? There is nothing that with this scene that suggest rape is okay, the Eldar even has the chance to get hold of a knife so she clearly is not helpless and the outcome is far from sure.
I think you are overreacting, it's totally okay to be against this kind of display but it's just art and if you don't like it then don't look.
It's probably not going to get all the mini painters in the world to go rape someone. Most of us are sensible people who can see that this type of stuff is a reality of war which is probably why Nakatan has chosen to make it, not that by making this piece he has made it okay for us to go out and do it, with the amount of violent themes and minis on this site half the world would probably be dead if we did everything the minis we see here suggest.

 

[Roy Rogers]

Wow, you people really don't see anything wrong with it...
My "faith in the human race-o-meter" is steadily dropping, because I can see that my view on the terrible subject of rape that this diorama portrays is one of the minority, and obviously not welcomed.
I apologize for wasting everyone's time.

 

[supervike]

They will continue, you piece of filth!

They will not continue from this board.

You are more than welcome to share your opinion, but you will not be allowed to use your account as an attack on another member.

This is your only warning in this regard.

Also, I would like it on the record that I have deleted 2 of your comments left for Nakatan's submission, as they both contained name calling. I have left other comments of yours alone, as you are entitled to your opinion. Please understand the distinction I am making.

And I have NOT deleted any other comments regarding this piece, as most have stayed on topic. I cannot speak for the other moderators, but yours are the first two I have deleted.

 

[gohkm]

Roy - having been a member here for over 7 years. I can guarantee you, we know when someones crossed the line. This isn't a site still finding it's feet. It's well established and we all know when enough is enough. Have a bit of faith that we aren't idiots.

I reckon Roy Rogers has crossed the line now. I'm amazed at how much discussion this diorama has provoked, and the response it has evoked from so many different people, from so many different backgrounds. I'd say that in Roy's anger and flames at Nakatan are, in a way, a form of praise and kudos to the latter - since art may be meant to elicit exactly such a response. This diorama has served its purpose, and served it well.

 

[fieldarchy]

This is art. Suggestive, descriptive, engaging and controversial. It has accomplished a level of criticism and discussion that most artists employing traditional means do not attain. I often here art professors here complain that too few of their students don't portray anything controversial. This is narrative. It possesses moral and political points. It's not agreeable to some, but that's desirable. I give my thanks to the artist.

So on the nose! I was told by my watercolor teacher that all of my paintings were technically good but the cute fluffy stuff is boring and I need to delve into my darker side. She thought my best painting was when I did a diptych of my brother and his murderer. Art is many things . . . stirring controversy is a good thing. Dealing with tough subjects is a good thing. Producing art is the best thing though! I'd rather see a piece that stirs debate and controversy than one that doesn't.

Anyway, I think miniature painting is evolving into more of a traditional art form and I'd like to see more artists, including myself, paint some pieces with serious meaning.

 

[Avelorn]

I haven't deleted any comments either IIRC.

One underlying difference here seems to be between those who see this hobby as entertainment and others as a form of expression, art perhaps. If those very offended could try viewing this more in terms of dealing with a difficult subject and also a comment to how routinely we accept violence in the same hobby they'd perhaps be more understanding. And vice versa if I take the position of someone seeing this hobby solely as entertainment I can understand people getting offended, very much so.

Instead of loosing faith in humanity I suggest we try to take each other seriously and quit making arguments that trivialise the matter and make it look like juvenile squabbling. This is not a discussion whether Gandalf or an AT-AT would win but rather something that cut to the core of what we actually are doing and the underlying values in what we portray. I can understand that some will have a problem taking this discussion that serious but for me it asks questions on how I see this hobby in relation to the values I have and thus what subject I will portray in dioramas and paintings. I perhaps will not take as lightly to violence as I have before, perhaps not portray it as cool or casual, a form of entertainment. Because when it comes down to it, I do not really think it is. There is however much more to be said on that, violence portrayed can also be a way of showing valour or other values which is perhaps why I am drawn into all of this and the fantasy genre in particular. As I said earlier this diorama actually has a content and a point to interpret, and at least it made me think.

 

[Swordwind]

Wow, you people really don't see anything wrong with it...
My "faith in the human race-o-meter" is steadily dropping, because I can see that my view on the terrible subject of rape that this diorama portrays is one of the minority, and obviously not welcomed.
I apologize for wasting everyone's time.

Who here on coolminiornot has said anything about rape being good? Just because they dont want to throw this piece of plastic and resin into the purging flames doesnt mean they dont think actual rape is not a heinous crime. If a toy soldier modeled so he is unbuckling his trousers causes you to loose faith in humanity, never watch the news.

 

[IdofEntity]

So on the nose! I was told by my watercolor teacher that all of my paintings were technically good but the cute fluffy stuff is boring and I need to delve into my darker side. She thought my best painting was when I did a diptych of my brother and his murderer. Art is many things . . . stirring controversy is a good thing. Dealing with tough subjects is a good thing. Producing art is the best thing though! I'd rather see a piece that stirs debate and controversy than one that doesn't.

Anyway, I think miniature painting is evolving into more of a traditional art form and I'd like to see more artists, including myself, paint some pieces with serious meaning.

This piece captures that I think. The artist is not clearly condoning a situation as this, but the artist isn't taking a clear moral high ground on it either. It's simply a situation portrayed with narrative clues as to the recent events. The most interesting thing to me was which character I associated with the most. Immediately what came to mind was, "What are her choices? What will she do next?" and I'm intrigued by other people's initial reactions. Which point of view did you initially associate with? Did you take a condescending view, a gut-wrenching fear, a desperate hope? Does someone initially focus on the depraved intentions of the Guardsmen, or focus on the grim determination in the Eldar?

I think our reactions are more interesting and telling of our own personalities than the piece is of the artist's personality.

 

[JesterzUSMC]

This diorama is a potential gateway to every sexually deprived cave dweller out there with a paint brush.
Yeah, and too much candy leads to drug abuse, right?
Why can't anyone see the inherent dangers of creating, displaying, and condoning (cool mini) this type of miniature?
Because it isn't actually there?
By cool mini displaying it (evidently lacking a moral edit button?), they are telling all who view it, that this type of thing is acceptable.
Ah, like showing robbery on the news is telling everyone "Look, this is how to do it."
I also find it very amusing that everyone from across the pond sees it as ok, and that I am the psycho? Hmm, now that is textbook, country wide lunacy right there for ya!
What?! Insulting individuals wasn't enough, now you go international? No, you aren't psycho at all!
I guess that rape is only thought of as a destructively, wrong, invasive thing in America?
I am FROM America, and actually Rape is more fetished in Japan than anywhere else...but please, continue shooting from the hip...you're bound to hit SOMETHING!
Remind me to never recommend the U.K. to any of my female friends, yikes!
You have friends? Oh yeah, birds of a feather and misery with company....
Oh, and to jesterusmc, you are full of it, if you think that your "girl" is ok with the idea of rape?
Whoa, she is NOT okay with RAPE, we are discussing a diorama, you ********** ******!
No woman is "cool" with it.
DUh!
You should try having it done to yourself, then we will see how cool with it you are...
Um, if I voluntarily went and "had it done" wouldn't that kind of negate the whole "rape" part of it?
Did you forget your daily dose today?
If everyone around you is acting "insane", and no one else but you can seem to see it...maybe, just maybe, it's you.

Your opinion is yours, no one is arguing your perspective, which is obviously drawing a conclusion that is very clearly upsetting to you. However, this piece isn't an example of what YOU have concluded. It is a very realistic portrayal of something that ACTUALLY DOES HAPPEN, and is a very mature subject. It is NOT a piece that glamorizes rape/sexual violence, nor is the FACT of rape in this diorama a forgone conclusion. There is alot going on, and most of it is open(OPEN) to interpretation.
Your anger and outrage are understandable, once I step back and try to look at it from your perspective. I however do not share your perspective. And before you add me to your list of "morally bankrupt" I do not condone rape, I am actually of the opinion that rapists should have the tools they used to commit the crime removed. However, I can not deny the FACT that it is something that occurs, and denying it, or not "dealing" with it is just as bad as condoning it. This diorama opens the discussion of and forces the viewer to view a darker aspect of war that many would rather leave out, in favor of enjoying the GAME and entertainment aspect of their WAR-games.
The diorama does NOT make a GAME out of a potential rape, but rather portrays a factual potential situation, with GAME pieces.
Very grown up, and NOT part of the GAME.
This is the biggest step toward proving this hobby as an ART form that I have ever seen.
And I for one applaud its creator for having the guts to not only create it, but to share it with everyone. Especially in light of your inability to view it for what it is, rather than recognizing the outrage that YOUR perspective of its subject matter elicits in you.

 

[Avelorn]

@JesterzUSMC: Lets stop the namecalling right now.

 

[fieldarchy]

This piece captures that I think. The artist is not clearly condoning a situation as this, but the artist isn't taking a clear moral high ground on it either. It's simply a situation portrayed with narrative clues as to the recent events. The most interesting thing to me was which character I associated with the most. Immediately what came to mind was, "What are her choices? What will she do next?" and I'm intrigued by other people's initial reactions. Which point of view did you initially associate with? Did you take a condescending view, a gut-wrenching fear, a desperate hope? Does someone initially focus on the depraved intentions of the Guardsmen, or focus on the grim determination in the Eldar?

I think our reactions are more interesting and telling of our own personalities than the piece is of the artist's personality.

Agreed! For me though, I prefer presenting an image with my paintings (not mini related) and then have the viewer fill in the story for themselves. I think that is more meaningful to the audience than me as the artist giving you something easy to digest and telling you point for point what it's about.

This is what Natakan has done. We are presented with a scene . . . it is up to us, the viewer, to fill in what happens next. Personally I like to think she guts the fuckers! But who knows?

I'm hopeful that miniatures will be included in the realm of "real art" if we tackle more serious subject matter.

If people want to change what is on this site in terms of violence or sex well this is an easy fix. Don't buy minis with anything that can be construed as a weapon (you know even crochet hooks are weapons according to the TSA) and don't buy any model showing any bit of skin other than face, hands and feet. Done. Then no one will ever be offended, ever again! < /cheek and sarcasm>

 

[JesterzUSMC]

done. I sincerely apologize. but um, the PM was plenty.

 

[JesterzUSMC]

.....Then no one will ever be offended, ever again!......

There will ALWAYS be a way for determined people to find offense. I'm just sayin'....

 

[fieldarchy]

There will ALWAYS be a way for determined people to find offense. I'm just sayin'....

yes hence the "</cheek and sarcasm> part of the post.

If we get rid of nudity and violence then people will be offended that we got rid of nudity and violence. If we leave nudity and violence then people are offended because we left it. No pleasing large groups of people. Just ain't! Someone is always gonna have a complaint.

 

[JesterzUSMC]

I saw the "</cheek and sarcasm>" <font?>, hence the "I'm just sayin'..."

Now that we're done stating the obvious..LOL.

I wouldn't be offended that nudity and violence was removed...I'd miss it horribly though, and my whining would probably offend people..LMAO!

 

[supervike]

I haven't deleted any comments either IIRC.

One underlying difference here seems to be between those who see this hobby as entertainment and others as a form of expression, art perhaps. If those very offended could try viewing this more in terms of dealing with a difficult subject and also a comment to how routinely we accept violence in the same hobby they'd perhaps be more understanding. And vice versa if I take the position of someone seeing this hobby solely as entertainment I can understand people getting offended, very much so.

Instead of loosing faith in humanity I suggest we try to take each other seriously and quit making arguments that trivialise the matter and make it look like juvenile squabbling. This is not a discussion whether Gandalf or an AT-AT would win but rather something that cut to the core of what we actually are doing and the underlying values in what we portray. I can understand that some will have a problem taking this discussion that serious but for me it asks questions on how I see this hobby in relation to the values I have and thus what subject I will portray in dioramas and paintings. I perhaps will not take as lightly to violence as I have before, perhaps not portray it as cool or casual, a form of entertainment. Because when it comes down to it, I do not really think it is. There is however much more to be said on that, violence portrayed can also be a way of showing valour or other values which is perhaps why I am drawn into all of this and the fantasy genre in particular. As I said earlier this diorama actually has a content and a point to interpret, and at least it made me think.

Gandalf would totally own an AT AT...

 

[ScottRadom]

Gandalf would totally own an AT AT...

What if Vader was on the AT-AT?