Legacy Account
Active member
lol
Have you ever thought about joining the GW board of directors talking to potential customers like that???!!!!!!!!
(I corrected your \'controversial\' spelling and grammar btw....
)
A Positive View on Games Workshop
- Thread starter mattsterbenz
- Start date
lol
Have you ever thought about joining the GW board of directors talking to potential customers like that???!!!!!!!!
(I corrected your \'controversial\' spelling and grammar btw....
)To put Finns graph in perspective the current GW share price is about what it was before LOTR came out.
I\'m pretty sure LOTR was a bubble that has now burst.
I still like GW, sure some of the stuff seems a little expensive, but some is great value IMHO when compared to similar hobby activities.
I\'m pretty sure LOTR was a bubble that has now burst.
I still like GW, sure some of the stuff seems a little expensive, but some is great value IMHO when compared to similar hobby activities.
Sand Rat
New member
Well, to put things in perspective from my point of view -
I own GW product, and have paid for it in the last two years, coming late to their systems. I will prolly buy GW product in the future if I really think it is something I need, such as the Dwarf Book. However, here again, not all of my mini money by any means will be going to one company - they all have good points and bad points like everything in life.
I\'m a rairity on this site - a gamer who paints, not a painter who games. I want to field the largest force possible, not the snazziest most converted one.
I own GW product, and have paid for it in the last two years, coming late to their systems. I will prolly buy GW product in the future if I really think it is something I need, such as the Dwarf Book. However, here again, not all of my mini money by any means will be going to one company - they all have good points and bad points like everything in life.
I\'m a rairity on this site - a gamer who paints, not a painter who games. I want to field the largest force possible, not the snazziest most converted one.
Right.....
Originally posted by mattsterbenz
Im not going to start any GW-related threads anymore.
Thank God!
It is obviously way to controvercial for most to discuss in an intelligent manner, everyone just babbles about back in their day.
Games Workshop? Controversial? We\'ve been intelligently discussing GW on here for years. Nothing you\'ve said is new. By \'intelligent\' I presume you mean \'agreeing with what I say\'?
What really hacks me off however, is the suggestion that we are all \'stick-in-the-muds\' babbling about the good old days...Since leaving the GW fold I have been involved in: VOID, WarZone, Chronopia, Hybrid, 1999, Confrontation, Urban War, Ragnarok, Warmachine and the last boxed game I bought was Starship Troopers.
Consider this thread finished for my part.
Thank God!
My original intent was to state that there is not much of a difference between now and 6-10 years ago except in quality of the models, and that changed to \"they suck cuz they dont make space hulk or squats anymore\".
Threads have a life of their own... you draped yourself in a GW flag, stood on a soapbox and tried to evalgelise GW to the masses. Now you are throwing a strop because not everyone applauded your words of wisdom
Most of you have nothing to say worth my time.
Well, I am sorry if we have wasted your valuable time
paintingploddy
New member
First we get a half baked illogical comparison to kick off the argument, and now it stops because people have the temerity to actually think for themselves?!?!?
Wasn\'t there a drinking game connected to GW threads?
Wasn\'t there a drinking game connected to GW threads?
Now that really gets my goat! How exceedingly rude of you! You haul up a tired old topic, and expect people to change their opinions because your opinion is better?
I won\'t complain about GW prices (the cheapest hobby I\'ve ever done), but I\'m waiting for some pro-GW champion to address the points I raised in >>this<< thread. Do you think you\'d have anything of worth to say about customer alienation?
DrEvilmonki
Active member
While I disagree with most of the negative GW vibes I would have to agree that spitting the dummy just because they disagree with you is a bit pointless.
Rather than not bringing up pro GW threads I would suggest not doing any threads where people disagree with you.
On the other hand some of the more experienced guys do seem to have rosier memories of the ghost of GW past than I do. I find them far more affordable now than I did 18 years ago. Of course that maybe because I get paid a shit load more than when I worked at McDonalds!lol
Personally I think they killed Space Hulk by adding all those shitty expansions with hybrids and psychics and so on. For me it lost it\'s balance. And I still make my own missions and maps, it just takes a bit of trial and error.
Rather than not bringing up pro GW threads I would suggest not doing any threads where people disagree with you.
On the other hand some of the more experienced guys do seem to have rosier memories of the ghost of GW past than I do. I find them far more affordable now than I did 18 years ago. Of course that maybe because I get paid a shit load more than when I worked at McDonalds!lol
Personally I think they killed Space Hulk by adding all those shitty expansions with hybrids and psychics and so on. For me it lost it\'s balance. And I still make my own missions and maps, it just takes a bit of trial and error.
Infidel Castro
New member
From the perspective of someone who, normally, would buy GW figs to paint, can I just point out the reasons why many people on these boards don\'t like them? Here goes...
The new Ogres - there were already shedloads of Ogres that could have been utilised in an army and, stylistically, could have been used as a basis for the new Ogre army. Instead, GW saw fit to totally change their appearanceand even cheekily introduce new skin colour and all sorts of silly things like a pseudo-goblin race (that had feck all background in their \'universe\'). The Tomb Kings (if I\'m right with the naming). What a shower of shite: Shit, we\'re out of ideas! Quick, make up something (lots of flapping, running around, looking in history books). I\'ve got it! Egyptian skeletons! A lame, lame excuse of an army. Very poorly done, very upsetting even in that it offends my cognitive powers :duh:
Removing Squats whilst bringing in new 40K armies was a shocker. Those damned silly android chaps (again, I\'m not completely au fait with the whole thing, so pardon my inability to offer names for armies) were again Egyptian rip-off bollock-shites. I love the (re)introduction of them, just reported as an ancient threat that has returned lol Spin away GW, spin away lol
The Tau at least are a little bit cooler. A little Mech/Manga but more acceptable I think as they were something quite different and not so contrived as some other lame shite they introduced.
The Imperial Guard stuff. It\'s all lazy parody. Vietnam-type fellas, Russian-type chaps...all very unimaginative. No thought taken to pop out some shitty plastic miniatures to be bought in bulk.
To draw a line under the above, I would also take a hat off to the Inquisition affair they\'ve done. Fair enough, it was a token gesture at a real female presence on the battlefield, but the background is at least in keeping with a lot of the stuff they\'ve churned out in literature form. Gothic, chaotic, spooky even.
My point though is one of business. GW have installed themselves as the market force and, as always happens with market leaders, they have to set trends and change those trends at regular periods of time to keep from stagnating. The only problem is, to keep the flow they have to then start extending and stretching the basis of their works to ever more extreme lengths. To keep that money coming in and keep their position, they HAVE to make new stuff or rehash old stuff in short cyclical periods. That\'s why they produce ridiculously bloated and oversized Space Marine Sergeants and Commanders with such frequency - they\'ve exhausted new guff with some - at best - ill-conceived tripe (with the occasional exception) and now have nowhere else to go other than keep churning out more and more 2nd, 3rd, 4th edition runs of extant figures to keep generating interest. Then, suddenly, some people who aren\'t so fecking fanboyesque (or fangirlesque) will raise their voices and say hang on, I\'m getting ripped off here. I\'m not paying for them to line their pockets with half-hearted rewrites of previous books and systems. Balls to \'em!
And then some tit like Misterbinz or whatever his name is gets lairy because we disagree with his oh-so-silky-smooth argument about just how smashing GW really are and how wrong we are (the people who have counted or do count ourselves as customers, occasional or not) for daring to suggest GW is just a company with an eye on profit and gain. There\'s nothing wrong with that; it\'s just a business model that a lot of companies operate with. What gets on my tits though is that people from within the gamestore industry think they know so much more than everyone else when, in all likelihood (and judging by his posts), he is drip-fed all these facts and lines from GW themselves lol
I\'ll go into tne GW store and buy the occasional piece, but I\'ll most likely pick up something on Ebay as it is a legitimate method of purchasing goods at lower prices (if you\'re careful). To have some gamestore fella telling me it ain\'t good or right will probably end up with me punching him on the nose in the worst case scenario or, most likely, giving him some choice words (probably followed by a fight). Much like GW pursue their own particular path in business, so do people who no longer have need for GW stuff follow their own p[ath and often sell their stuff on Ebay. If GW think it is a threat to their business they should look at how they run and then perhaps, just maybe, look at how they sell their products. I\'d close half of the stores right down and give some franchises out to independent gamestores. Then I\'d make the biggest and the best on-line retail or catalogue sales system possible and see just how much of their stuff turns up on Ebay. It\'s common sense and I\'m fed up of tittish tits like some folk around here who think we just dislike GW for no reason. I dislike them because of my powers of reason. Also I still use them and really would even perhaps state my overall attitude towards them as somewhere between ambivalence and anti-corporate. Still, I\'ve spent my pounds there, and this prevalent capitalist outlook at present means that I\'m in the position to go where I want and when I want and say what I want about the service I want. The businsses have created a monster, because one day every sound-minded person will question the status quo and the retail industry will go through some HUGE changes. And not before time.
Vive la waffle!
The new Ogres - there were already shedloads of Ogres that could have been utilised in an army and, stylistically, could have been used as a basis for the new Ogre army. Instead, GW saw fit to totally change their appearanceand even cheekily introduce new skin colour and all sorts of silly things like a pseudo-goblin race (that had feck all background in their \'universe\'). The Tomb Kings (if I\'m right with the naming). What a shower of shite: Shit, we\'re out of ideas! Quick, make up something (lots of flapping, running around, looking in history books). I\'ve got it! Egyptian skeletons! A lame, lame excuse of an army. Very poorly done, very upsetting even in that it offends my cognitive powers :duh:
Removing Squats whilst bringing in new 40K armies was a shocker. Those damned silly android chaps (again, I\'m not completely au fait with the whole thing, so pardon my inability to offer names for armies) were again Egyptian rip-off bollock-shites. I love the (re)introduction of them, just reported as an ancient threat that has returned lol Spin away GW, spin away lol
The Tau at least are a little bit cooler. A little Mech/Manga but more acceptable I think as they were something quite different and not so contrived as some other lame shite they introduced.
The Imperial Guard stuff. It\'s all lazy parody. Vietnam-type fellas, Russian-type chaps...all very unimaginative. No thought taken to pop out some shitty plastic miniatures to be bought in bulk.
To draw a line under the above, I would also take a hat off to the Inquisition affair they\'ve done. Fair enough, it was a token gesture at a real female presence on the battlefield, but the background is at least in keeping with a lot of the stuff they\'ve churned out in literature form. Gothic, chaotic, spooky even.
My point though is one of business. GW have installed themselves as the market force and, as always happens with market leaders, they have to set trends and change those trends at regular periods of time to keep from stagnating. The only problem is, to keep the flow they have to then start extending and stretching the basis of their works to ever more extreme lengths. To keep that money coming in and keep their position, they HAVE to make new stuff or rehash old stuff in short cyclical periods. That\'s why they produce ridiculously bloated and oversized Space Marine Sergeants and Commanders with such frequency - they\'ve exhausted new guff with some - at best - ill-conceived tripe (with the occasional exception) and now have nowhere else to go other than keep churning out more and more 2nd, 3rd, 4th edition runs of extant figures to keep generating interest. Then, suddenly, some people who aren\'t so fecking fanboyesque (or fangirlesque
) will raise their voices and say hang on, I\'m getting ripped off here. I\'m not paying for them to line their pockets with half-hearted rewrites of previous books and systems. Balls to \'em!And then some tit like Misterbinz or whatever his name is gets lairy because we disagree with his oh-so-silky-smooth argument about just how smashing GW really are and how wrong we are (the people who have counted or do count ourselves as customers, occasional or not) for daring to suggest GW is just a company with an eye on profit and gain. There\'s nothing wrong with that; it\'s just a business model that a lot of companies operate with. What gets on my tits though is that people from within the gamestore industry think they know so much more than everyone else when, in all likelihood (and judging by his posts), he is drip-fed all these facts and lines from GW themselves lol
I\'ll go into tne GW store and buy the occasional piece, but I\'ll most likely pick up something on Ebay as it is a legitimate method of purchasing goods at lower prices (if you\'re careful). To have some gamestore fella telling me it ain\'t good or right will probably end up with me punching him on the nose in the worst case scenario or, most likely, giving him some choice words (probably followed by a fight
). Much like GW pursue their own particular path in business, so do people who no longer have need for GW stuff follow their own p[ath and often sell their stuff on Ebay. If GW think it is a threat to their business they should look at how they run and then perhaps, just maybe, look at how they sell their products. I\'d close half of the stores right down and give some franchises out to independent gamestores. Then I\'d make the biggest and the best on-line retail or catalogue sales system possible and see just how much of their stuff turns up on Ebay. It\'s common sense and I\'m fed up of tittish tits like some folk around here who think we just dislike GW for no reason. I dislike them because of my powers of reason. Also I still use them and really would even perhaps state my overall attitude towards them as somewhere between ambivalence and anti-corporate. Still, I\'ve spent my pounds there, and this prevalent capitalist outlook at present means that I\'m in the position to go where I want and when I want and say what I want about the service I want. The businsses have created a monster, because one day every sound-minded person will question the status quo and the retail industry will go through some HUGE changes. And not before time.Vive la waffle!
I found Mattsterbenz reply to be rude, and juvenile.
You complain about us old timers, but guess what, without us old timers there wouldn\'t be any GW for you to be all fan boyish over.
You want to thank GW, you should be thanking us.
You can say what you want about it being business, but any business that forgets about the customers that put them where they are is a business doomed to fail
If the business is so good, then why are almost all the games creators gone, everyone of them saying in one way or another that the \"suits and bean counters\" are ruining it?
GW used to be the best because at the time their games were original, the guys creating the games were gamers at heart, trying to make a good game, those guys are gone.
Like Steelcult, I\'m a gamer that paints. I\'ve got 20+ years wargaming under my belt.
In those years I\'ve pretty much played everything that isn\'t extremely new or written in a language other than english, which leaves a whole hell of a lot of games.
There are better games, there are less expensive, better games, but as a store owner you\'ve already shown your bias. You want people to come into your store and buy those expensive armies, you profit from them.
You complain about us old timers, but guess what, without us old timers there wouldn\'t be any GW for you to be all fan boyish over.
You want to thank GW, you should be thanking us.
You can say what you want about it being business, but any business that forgets about the customers that put them where they are is a business doomed to fail
If the business is so good, then why are almost all the games creators gone, everyone of them saying in one way or another that the \"suits and bean counters\" are ruining it?
GW used to be the best because at the time their games were original, the guys creating the games were gamers at heart, trying to make a good game, those guys are gone.
Like Steelcult, I\'m a gamer that paints. I\'ve got 20+ years wargaming under my belt.
In those years I\'ve pretty much played everything that isn\'t extremely new or written in a language other than english, which leaves a whole hell of a lot of games.
There are better games, there are less expensive, better games, but as a store owner you\'ve already shown your bias. You want people to come into your store and buy those expensive armies, you profit from them.
laurence
Brushlover
common threads...
I\'ve been following this thread for the past few days now and must say that I\'ve learnt a lot and really found most of what has been said to be interesting and insightful.
Initially, I was happy to see another GW thread begin with a more positive tone to it and therefore in my original post I deliberately omitted some of the qualms and issues I have with GW. I don\'t see any point going in to that.
Having said that, it\'s common sense to seek out the cheapest possible way to attain gaming armies. So whether it\'s better to buy from Foundry or purchase through E-bay it really makes sense to go the easier on the ol\' pocket route.
I don\'t game so I can\'t speak from personal experience but, it seems that each gamer has his or her own specific needs etc... So mixing and matching miniatures from different companies seems perfectly logical.
I buy miniatures and love \'em! And I must say, that apart from the GREAT \'Beakies\' (Darn I\'m envious of your sprue Finn17)!! I\'m not really too interested in anything else GW has to offer. (Apologies if that sounds a little negative).
Mr Benz, I really think you need to adjust your attitude a little (please don\'t take me the wrong way), most of the guys replying in this thread really know what they\'re talking about. These guys are hard core gamers. Many were probably gaming when your mammie was wiping your a$$. You would be wise to listen and if you disagree with there points of view that\'s okay. Many people have taken the time out to read and reply to your thread and I think it\'s really silly to just throw a tantrum and storm off the way you have. Come on d00d!! What\'s that going to achieve? Nothing.
Also, this whole thing about if you want to game at my store you have to be a regular customer who buys stuff and supports us is never going to work unless you put up a sign stating such conditions and consequently turn away many people including potential customers.
Just be happy that peole are there gaming! Share in the joy and atmosphere of the whole gaming thang, and be happy! And hey, if you get to sell a few things along the way c00l!
I\'m not getting self-righteous on you. Whatever makes you happy.
You don\'t have to agree with a word I\'ve just said.
Happy days!
I\'ve been following this thread for the past few days now and must say that I\'ve learnt a lot and really found most of what has been said to be interesting and insightful.
Initially, I was happy to see another GW thread begin with a more positive tone to it and therefore in my original post I deliberately omitted some of the qualms and issues I have with GW. I don\'t see any point going in to that.
Having said that, it\'s common sense to seek out the cheapest possible way to attain gaming armies. So whether it\'s better to buy from Foundry or purchase through E-bay it really makes sense to go the easier on the ol\' pocket route.
I don\'t game so I can\'t speak from personal experience but, it seems that each gamer has his or her own specific needs etc... So mixing and matching miniatures from different companies seems perfectly logical.
I buy miniatures and love \'em! And I must say, that apart from the GREAT \'Beakies\' (Darn I\'m envious of your sprue Finn17)!! I\'m not really too interested in anything else GW has to offer. (Apologies if that sounds a little negative).
Mr Benz, I really think you need to adjust your attitude a little (please don\'t take me the wrong way), most of the guys replying in this thread really know what they\'re talking about. These guys are hard core gamers. Many were probably gaming when your mammie was wiping your a$$. You would be wise to listen and if you disagree with there points of view that\'s okay. Many people have taken the time out to read and reply to your thread and I think it\'s really silly to just throw a tantrum and storm off the way you have. Come on d00d!! What\'s that going to achieve? Nothing.
Also, this whole thing about if you want to game at my store you have to be a regular customer who buys stuff and supports us is never going to work unless you put up a sign stating such conditions and consequently turn away many people including potential customers.
Just be happy that peole are there gaming! Share in the joy and atmosphere of the whole gaming thang, and be happy! And hey, if you get to sell a few things along the way c00l!
I\'m not getting self-righteous on you. Whatever makes you happy.
You don\'t have to agree with a word I\'ve just said.
Happy days!
vincegamer
Active member
Others have said what I thought, but I will add this:
You: Only difference is in the quality of the minis.
Others: No, back then they produced more interesting stuff that they have since abandoned.
You: I\'m taking my toys and going home.
If, instead of saying the ONLY change was quality, you could have started by saying the improvement in quality justifies the increase in cost. Since you brought up other changes, people responded. It\'s not living in the past, and you admit you are the one who brought up the past.
So bye, we\'ll keep playing in the sandbox.
Your characterization of the comments about old games/armies aside, I will rephrase.
You: Only difference is in the quality of the minis.
Others: No, back then they produced more interesting stuff that they have since abandoned.
You: I\'m taking my toys and going home.
If, instead of saying the ONLY change was quality, you could have started by saying the improvement in quality justifies the increase in cost. Since you brought up other changes, people responded. It\'s not living in the past, and you admit you are the one who brought up the past.
So bye, we\'ll keep playing in the sandbox.
I\'ve found this thread both interesting and entertaining \'\'
I still buy the occasional GW stuff and I think it can be expensive but not necessarily more so than anything else out there.
The main reason I buy their stuff is because it is easier to get hold of. I didn\'t realise that there were that many other manufacturers until I discovered CMON. So I guess GW were a gateway for me to this expensive hobby. They do make some crap but so does everyone else, but it still is the easiest place to get stuff.
\'I still buy the occasional GW stuff and I think it can be expensive but not necessarily more so than anything else out there.
The main reason I buy their stuff is because it is easier to get hold of. I didn\'t realise that there were that many other manufacturers until I discovered CMON. So I guess GW were a gateway for me to this expensive hobby. They do make some crap but so does everyone else, but it still is the easiest place to get stuff.
Amen to that brother, same reason i\'ve ended up with GW stuff. I\'ve flat out had game stores here in Phoenix, same place that matt appears to be from, that have admitted half of all store profits are from GW sales. So it\'s no suprise to me a store owner here would have their nose buried in GW\'s arse. Around here, and even in nebraska, your choices for miniatures are GW, some Reaper, now Warmachine and ugh, oh my god... yet more GW.
Legacy Account
Active member
Originally posted by MacBrown
I\'ve found this thread both interesting and entertaining \'
Me too! :flip:
So did I, up to a point where I considered that rational discussion became generalised rudeness towards people.
A
Antnol
Guest
I took a look at this thread last night when it was brought to my attention by a fellow CMONer. Everyone has there favorite books and favorite TV shows and yes even there favorite mini manufacturer. Every company has there own pros and cons about them. To tell you the truth I like them all. I have minis from almost every major company out there sitting on my desk. I think its okay for someone to speak there mind about a certain company they dont like or they do like. But if I like a company and someone decides they are going to speak their opinion about what they hate about them I am not going to take it personally. Yes GW is expensive but if it wasnt for them I would have never have even started the hobby. Now that I have access to a whole lot of minis I prefer Rackham. I live in the Phoenix area and I do know Matt Sterbenz personally. He is really a good kid. I am not going to take sides on this but I think this thread has gone a little hay-wire on everyone part if you ask me. Now considering the title of the thread I am now going to state my positive opinion about GW. I like GW minis, I really do. The pewter minis are really strong and the plastics are very easily convertable. I do thank them for introducing me the whole world of mini painting. I dont play so I cant say how the game is but I love the paints. And the wide variety of different minis is huge. There is is my positive view on the subject. I will leave it at that and hopefully I dont step on any toes with this. If I make anyone mad I am seriously sorry. My intentions were not at all to make anyone mad.
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
lol are you being ironic?
that was a very levelheaded response and I can\'t see how it possible would make anyone mad. Gw has it\'s pros and cons. I think it\'s fair to say that this forum tend to focus on the cons. But being the largest in the game also means that you are the largest target of critique. And there is a certain hate-love phenomenon going on.. most of us I think really loved GW in the beginning of our hobby careers, but little by little we learn about elements of their business practics and at least I tended to feel a bit betrayed.
I got to say used to get irritated sometimes when people do sweeping generalisations that almost mean that everything GW touches turn to poo. But now I\'m more jaded.. now I just think it\'s a bit childish.
We live in a capitalistic market-economy.. this is just a part of it all. \"Money makes the world go around\".