And by the Way...

Nomis

New member
Originally posted by Dragonsreach
this is something she and I could have prevented, which is causing me the greatest guilt.

The last thing you should be doing is beating yourself up over someone else\'s actions. I doubt very much if you would have been able to exert much influence on your parents.

As with any addiction it is the person with the addiction that needs to come to terms with it and decide that they wish to change their behaviour (- wish is an inadequate word!)

My parents were 40 a day (Players Weights!) for almost the whole of their adult lives - suddenly - in his 60\'s my father quit. There was no apparent reason and he seemed to stop overnight. Within a year he had been diagnosed with cancer and after an unpleasant period of Radio/chemical treatment he died. It came to light later that he stopped because he was aware of the cancer and had the will power and determination to try to do something about it. As Finn\'s story shows not every one can be successful.
Even if I had known about the disease I doubt if I could have influenced him and I dont carry any guilty fealings I sincerely hope you can come to terms with the grief your family must be experiencing and can move on.

Best wishes

Simon.

PS my sister has been a life long smoker and I know the last person she would listen to would be me!
 

Nailpainter2003

New member
Simon, You are quite accurate...a smoker cannot be convinced by their children, parents, doctors, clergy, or anyone, but themselves. The strength has to come from within and possibly, a little help from above.
Sincerely,
Faye
 
M

mini-goddess

Guest
Originally posted by Evil Dave
Originally posted by torifile

When it comes down to a choice of sending someone out in the rain to smoke, or the asthmatic next to them being rushed to the hospital because they can\'t breath

I was gonna quit this topic but...

Now why would a severe asthmatic go to a place where he knows there will be smoking? Why would anyone who doesn\'t like smoke?

If I were allergic to sunlight...going out at noon would be pretty uncomfortable, if not fatal, therefore I would not do it.

If i was diabetic and could not eat sugar,
I would not.

Is this unfair for these types of people...to be responsible for what they eat, where they go? They deal with it.

Take responsibility for your own health do not blame us if you know the consequences but do it anyway.
Just as we must asume responsibity for our choices so must you.

Why did they not make non smoking bars...because the assumption by a militant few that it was ok...and you know what they say about assumption...
it makes an ass outa u and mption.


Well, I wasn\'t gonna enter the fray, but what the heck, the day is young...

I am not a smoker. I am fat. I do believe in choices in your life and you gotta do what you feel is right for you. The smoking issue is one I deal with on a weekly basis and some days it\'s heartwrenching.

I do not blame all smokers, and I know quite a few who are polite and really nice people and my friends. Outside of smoking, the main smokers in my life are nice people. But smoking...

They are my inlaws...mom and sister in law both smoke heavily. As a mom, I had to negotiate harshly with them when I was pregnant, when my little one was a baby, and now I hear that they won\'t play with my daughter unless they can smoke. It makes me cry most days to think about it. We visit them often as they live near by...and the smell lingers on our clothes and coats for days, so that we have a system in place where the clothes get put in a garbage bag when we get home and the coats have to be \"febreezed\" before hanging up or the whole closet soon smells of cigs. I\'m asked to help fix dinner and they smoke, we get dessert and they smoke, we go out to eat and they smoke. Doesn\'t matter what my doc bills are for sinus trouble, the risks to my daughter or my husband...they even smoked in my parents house without asking when they came to plan my wedding. They tried smoking in my apartment when they helped me move and got mad when I told them to go out on the balcony and close the door.

The deal is, that I love them. I hate every time I have to tell them no, we won\'t be coming over and no, they won\'t see us at the cottage for the weekend. I\'d love to spend more time with them, I\'d love to help out more in the kitchen...

What do you want me to do? Sit back and say that they shouldn\'t ban smoking in public places? I wish there were more places we could all go together to and enjoy freely, rather than ruin them for me by their smoking. That is selfish, I admit. It is the way I feel.

Basically, it\'s up to me, to make my choice, so, what\'s my choices here? My only choices are to never see them, take away their access to my daughter and not have to deal with my sinuses and watery eyes and the smell...or to live with the problems it causes us both in my health and my daughter\'s so she can know and love her relatives. Both ways is heartrending and so I cry about it and wish they didn\'t smoke. They don\'t have to deal with the consequences of their habit on us. They are resentful and defensive whenever I suggest their smoking is causing a problem. I\'m told that smoking isn\'t that bad.

I have gotten better at saying no, they no longer visit our home because they cannot smoke, and I can ignore them or walk away when they light up in front of me...but my daughter is too young to be able to do the same.

So, that is my angst, the anguished core of my support for banning smoking in as many places as possible. You asked why would someone do what they know is bad? Love. Family. Why smoke if it\'s bad? Why do I eat if it\'s bad for my weight? They don\'t mean to hurt us, but they can\'t stop.

Everyone deals with it in some way...I just wish we didn\'t have to, like I wish we didn\'t have to deal with violence or illegal drugs or poverty.
 

kittykat23uk

New member
My heart goes out to everyone that has lost friends and family due to smoking. Faye, Lurch and the rest of you who do smoke, I do hope you finally have the strength of will to quit one day before it is too late. Faye- if you have managed to survive all the trials in your life that you have shared with us her (the spider incident, etc) then I\'m sure you can manage to overcome this addiction as well.

Regards

Kat
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Lurch, Faye If I\'m reading this right I think that you may be trying to quit smoking. If I\'m right then you will need someone to take out your stressed temper on.

[align=center] That\'ll be me then.[/align]

If I\'ve made you think of this, then the least I can do is help you as much as possible when I\'m several thousand miles away. Yell, scream and shout at me, I can take it. Plus if you give up smoking I\'ll join in by giving up chocolate. That\'s not an idle promise!
 

dauber22

New member
Lurch,

As a tall, (formerly)thin, long term (age 14) smoker (once upon a time, as many as 3+ packs a day) I almost literally feel your pain. I have nothing more eloquent to say here.

I would echo what you\'ve said.
THe ONLY good way to quit smoking is
DON\"T START
 

vincegamer

Active member
apology

Faye,
Judging by your response I see that my post has given offense. I\'m sorry. I spoke bluntly and without explanation and that was not a proper angle to take.

I will explain myself but feel free to skip the rest of this message if you wish.

You said that your children are alergic to smoke and that you don\'t smoke around them.
Allergies are an overreaction of the immune system that develops as a result of repeated exposure to the offending allergen. Hence without exposure to smoke, your children could never develop an allergy to smoke. Therefore they have been exposed to smoke whether you were the source or not. I assume you were since you smoke and have regular contact with the children. As has been pointed out, there is a lingering smell on smokers from the tobacco soot. That means that the clothes, hair, skin etc. are dropping minute particles of the soot that are getting into people\'s noses. Because you do not smoke around them does not mean they are free of your second-hand smoke.

I had a friend who is a smoker. He is nice enough not to smoke around his non-smoking friends. Nevertheless I found I cannot spend any time with him in an enclosed space because if I do I become violently ill. Last time I spent several minutes disgorging my dinner. The residue on his skin and clothes is too strong. I may have a hypersensitivity, but the point is that he does not smoke around me and yet the second-hand smoke gets into my system and makes me ill anyway. I have not seen Erich for several years now.

So, if you have read to here, I apologize for giving offense. These are the grounds for my assertion.
 

vincegamer

Active member
Originally posted by U4-Welcome
Is everyone but me on CMON either overweight or a smoker ? :eek:
No, but the latter category includes an inordinate number of Europeans and the former the majority of Americans and ours is not exactly an active hobby so I wouldn\'t be surprised if this group is even more slanted.
 

Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by mini-goddess
What do you want me to do? Sit back and say that they shouldn\'t ban smoking in public places? I wish there were more places we could all go together to and enjoy freely, rather than ruin them for me by their smoking. That is selfish, I admit. It is the way I feel.

It personally sounds to me as if you have problems with going to peoples homes who smoke or people who smoke in your home neither of which are public places...
However the crux of the matter is there was NO trying to be fair...the non-smokers wanted it their way and got it, in California and New York.
If I own a club and allow smokers in...Who are YOU to tell me that I can\'t let paying customers consume legal substances in MY bar.
It\'s the \"Hooray Me, Screw You\" attitude that offends me. That selfish \"My Individual rights are more important than yours\" that the general non-smoking populance has..
I bet not one non-smoker thought \"Hey, rather than piss off a large group of people, lets just make a few places where we can go that is non-smoking.\"
No all they thought was \"How can we make this benefit me?\"
You can call this human nature and justify yourselves all you want, but it is a blatant trampling of a group of law-abiding citzens rights for your benefit.
 

finn18

New member
Muhahahahaha..hahhaha...ha

Originally posted by U4-Welcome
Is everyone but me on CMON either overweight or a smoker ? :eek:
:DI am a relatively thin, non-smoker. So that\'s two of us.:flip::bouncy:

I currently drink for England however, so I guess that disqualifies me for sainthood???:flip:
 

finn18

New member
mini-goddess, you are in the right...

It\'s your life and your children. You have the right and the DUTY to protect them. If other people insist on jeopardising your health or the health of your children than you are right to stand up for yourself.

I am not an \'anti\'. I am an ex-smoker. My wife still smokes, and that is her choice, but she doesn\'t do it in the house.

Evil Dave is right in his basic premise. If people want to get together and smoke then that is perfectly okay. They just don\'t have the right to infect other people with the by-products of their vice.

I like a beer, but it doesn\'t affect other people. If I go into a smokey pub, I accept that I will breathe in other peoples smoke. That is my choice also and I would not complain.

Smokers generally however have little appreciation ofthe effect of their habit on others.

A smoker inhales his/her drug and it has it\'s effect upon their system. They then exhale their waste products into the general atmosphere for other people to enjoy:D

As a beer drinker, the only way I could rival this behaviour would be to have a little piss in everyone else\'s drink. I am sure no one would mind if I did this, after all, it\'s a free world:bouncy:
 

TwelveMilesOut

New member
Originally posted by vincegamer
Therefore they have been exposed to smoke whether you were the source or not. I assume you were since you smoke and have regular contact with the children.
So, the source of the smoke would not most likely be that the children are being raised directly between Detroit and Pittsburgh? It seems like smokers are being hammered over air quality, which feels similar to Martha Stewart going to prison for insider trading. The steel and automotive industries have placed significantly greater quantity of pollutants in the air (more than twice as much, for those that have read their Stephenson), but these entities tend to play on a slightly different level than citizens (or even tobacco corporations) do. If group A is a more gross offender, but also has more power, group B will tend to gather more negative attention.

Vincegamer\'s comment seems to make the assumption that a family consisting entirely of non-smokers living in the same neighborhood would not suffer the same infirmities that trouble those with a smoking member. As an answer to that I point out that I have not (nor have any smokers of my acquaintance) been attacked and eaten by a jaguar. After considerable contemplation, I prefer a jaguar-attack free lifestyle with the possibility of other dangers in the future. ;)
 

Nailpainter2003

New member
Dragonsreach...you\'re a saint!

Originally posted by Dragonsreach
Lurch, Faye If I\'m reading this right I think that you may be trying to quit smoking. If I\'m right then you will need someone to take out your stressed temper on.

[align=center] That\'ll be me then.[/align]

If I\'ve made you think of this, then the least I can do is help you as much as possible when I\'m several thousand miles away. Yell, scream and shout at me, I can take it. Plus if you give up smoking I\'ll join in by giving up chocolate. That\'s not an idle promise!

Your offer has got to be the most magnanimous gesture I have heard in quite some time. *Kneel, that I may confer knighthood upon thee, Sir Dragonsreach*

And yes, you and your kind words are resposible for implanting the idea and want, to try again to stop smoking......I will keep you posted, but I shant use you as a sounding board. If I had to give up my love of chocolate AND cigarettes, I\'d simply put a gun to my head!! So don\'t even think about it. Okay?:D

It\'s a good thing I\'m on the slim side, because I\'m certain there will be alot of eating going on.....especially chocolate!! It will be one of my rewards!:bouncy::flip:

My sincere gratitude,
Faye
 

vincegamer

Active member
Originally posted by TwelveMilesOutSo, the source of the smoke would not most likely be that the children are being raised directly between Detroit and Pittsburgh?

>allergy to \"cigarette\" smoke. Unless the auto factories are burning tobacco to run their machines, no.

It seems like smokers are being hammered over air quality, which feels similar to Martha Stewart going to prison for insider trading.

>Martha was acquitted of insider trading. She was convicted of obstruction of justice and lying to federal investigators.

The steel and automotive industries have placed significantly greater quantity of pollutants in the air.... If group A is a more gross offender, but also has more power, group B will tend to gather more negative attention.

>well, the auto industry never hid the studies they did on the adverse effects of exhaust, and when they hid studies of other danger risks of their autos, then they faced retribution. Nice to compare Martha since it\'s the lying that got her in trouble, not the illegal stock trade.

Vincegamer\'s comment seems to make the assumption that a family consisting entirely of non-smokers living in the same neighborhood would not suffer the same infirmities that trouble those with a smoking member. As an answer to that I point out that I have not (nor have any smokers of my acquaintance) been attacked and eaten by a jaguar. After considerable contemplation, I prefer a jaguar-attack free lifestyle with the possibility of other dangers in the future. ;)

Yes, that\'s my assumption but I have no idea what the rest of your paragraph means???. I like your avatar though!;)
 

TwelveMilesOut

New member
Darth: Don\'t be silly. Everyone knows that chewing bubble gum keeps polar bears away. They don\'t mind smoking. ;)

Originally posted by vincegamer
allergy to \"cigarette\" smoke. Unless the auto factories are burning tobacco to run their machines, no.
I don\'t remember seeing anything about their allergies being cigarette smoke specific before now. I also didn\'t think allergies get that specific. Is anyone allergic to one type of pollen and not another?
Martha was acquitted of insider trading. She was convicted of obstruction of justice and lying to federal investigators.
...um, are you saying you think she\'s more guilty of lying to federal investigators and obstruction of justice than anyone else?
well, the auto industry never hid the studies they did on the adverse effects of exhaust, and when they hid studies of other danger risks of their autos, then they faced retribution. Nice to compare Martha since it\'s the lying that got her in trouble, not the illegal stock trade.
That retribution being roughly equivalent to the class action lawsuits being leveled at tobacco companies? I don\'t know if it\'s illegal to drive a car (even a Ford Explorer) in any states, so the legislative ban seems to be applied selectively. The Martha comparison gets stronger if you look at it that way. She is no where near the biggest liar to the federal government.
Yes, that\'s my assumption but I have no idea what the rest of your paragraph means???. I like your avatar though!;)
Post hoc fallacy. The same type used by the studies linking second-hand smoke to lung and heart disease. The classic example is the Tiger Stick: \"I\'m holding a stick, and am not being attacked by a tiger. Therefore, this stick prevents tiger attacks.\" I\'m glad you like the avatar, and yours ain\'t bad either.

Worship the comic.
 
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