BloodFather of Kharnath
Active member
This pic is for AndyG, but anyone feel free to comment on this gold NMM experiment.
BloodFather's Axis of Chaos
- Thread starter BloodFather of Kharnath
- Start date
AndyG
Active member
Great start on the nmm you have the edge glints spot on. Just a couple of minor suggestions you have to much dark you need to go back in and gently add some more mid tone di reducing the area of dark the surface is quite flat so it won't have quite as much shadow as that also you need to highlite a slightly larger area. Also all the rivets being bits which stick out will catch more light di in little crescents you need to make sure there is a strong glint.
BloodFather of Kharnath
Active member
Thank you both. I am very aware of there being too much shadow. I feel like I should blend an intermediate between the black wash
and my midtone. But as you say, this should be possible through simply layering over the shadow with the midtone. Bit by bit.
I agree reed with more highlights, but I guess my question is how? Take the central arrow, for instance. I put 3-4 layers down of progressively brighter highlights. By the time I get to the third or fourth, I am edge highlighting because I have run out off room. Basically, what I am asking is how do make for a smooth blend that maximizes contrast in such a small area? Should I have just gone, from right to left: darkest shade, shade, midtone, highlight, glint highlight???
I realize now that if I would have used less shade as discussed I'd have more room for the highlights you discussed.
The crescent glints on the bumps make perfect sense to me. Thanks.
The challenge now is getting this all on my current mini. Think I should practice a few more pieces. The nail polish varnish I used previously to strip it looks like it wore away some detail, like a few of the studs on the gold. So I carefully have been reconstructing these with GS. Anyway, I'll start with his shield and post results soon.
So happy you guys think it looks okay!!
and my midtone. But as you say, this should be possible through simply layering over the shadow with the midtone. Bit by bit.
I agree reed with more highlights, but I guess my question is how? Take the central arrow, for instance. I put 3-4 layers down of progressively brighter highlights. By the time I get to the third or fourth, I am edge highlighting because I have run out off room. Basically, what I am asking is how do make for a smooth blend that maximizes contrast in such a small area? Should I have just gone, from right to left: darkest shade, shade, midtone, highlight, glint highlight???
I realize now that if I would have used less shade as discussed I'd have more room for the highlights you discussed.
The crescent glints on the bumps make perfect sense to me. Thanks.
The challenge now is getting this all on my current mini. Think I should practice a few more pieces. The nail polish varnish I used previously to strip it looks like it wore away some detail, like a few of the studs on the gold. So I carefully have been reconstructing these with GS. Anyway, I'll start with his shield and post results soon.
So happy you guys think it looks okay!!
BloodFather of Kharnath
Active member
Very true, thanks Maxxx-at this stage in the game, I'm just going with what looks good. But yes, looking good sometimes requires you to be correct with your lighting. I will improve on this for non-practice instances. Some of my project should get posted soon. Always good comments from you Maxxx.
BloodFather of Kharnath
Active member
Nonsense, Dig. You've an eye as keen as the next man's. 
That being said, I am certainly not 100% happy with it. It suffers from being a little sloppy with brush control in places, the shadows need to be reduced, and I need more of the second highest highlight. I'm happy with the glint selection though, other than the fact that they are not geographically(?) correct. I should improve with practice.
That being said, I am certainly not 100% happy with it. It suffers from being a little sloppy with brush control in places, the shadows need to be reduced, and I need more of the second highest highlight. I'm happy with the glint selection though, other than the fact that they are not geographically(?) correct. I should improve with practice.
BloodFather of Kharnath
Active member
Need some advice on how to improve this shield. I know it's not perfect. Maybe not enough midtone? Blends are crappy? I have trouble blending the black wash with my midtone. This is AndyG's recipe applied to my current WIP. Also, I realize that I still need to clean up areas where I painted sloppy.
BloodFather of Kharnath
Active member
Thanks Tom. Yeah, the shield itself is yet to get its big makeover. All of the blue is still to get reapplied and blended. It will have more light blue in it than is present on it now. So just a little bit of that darkest blue at the bottom, blended up to a more pure white blue at the top. Less mid tone overall. All the spurs on the blue will get painted with a lighter shade. And there will be some white edge highlighting throughout, all to give it a more blue NMM look. Right now it's sloppy simply because I'm looking for comments on the gold. Thanks for all the advice though. Good call on trying to make it look like metal showing through. May try that, but the plan right now is the standard white on the bottom, black on the top.
Demihuman
Active member
The top left (Chaos champ's right) of the shield looks great to me. I think you need to repeat that in the left of the Korn symbol. Think about a bar of light being reflected by a cylinder then add edge highlights. Also pick out all the rivets. It's pretty easy to do. I would do the blue ones on the shield too.
There has been a lot of great advice on this thread and I have enjoyed reading it. One thing I think of when attempting the nmm is the idea that I am not painting so much as labeling stuff as "reflective" or "shinny metal" Nmm is a trick, it's a gimmick essentially. Tromp l'oeil. So, I think nmm requires a large degree of abstraction and getting your head into that space isn't very intuitive.
And practice makes perfect.
There has been a lot of great advice on this thread and I have enjoyed reading it. One thing I think of when attempting the nmm is the idea that I am not painting so much as labeling stuff as "reflective" or "shinny metal" Nmm is a trick, it's a gimmick essentially. Tromp l'oeil. So, I think nmm requires a large degree of abstraction and getting your head into that space isn't very intuitive.
And practice makes perfect.
MAXXxxx
Well-known member
I think you are getting better and better with the NMM part. I looks pretty good imho now.
Looks much better than the other shield on the top of this page.
The only thing: maybe a bit of a purple glaze on the right side, but you should only use purple not make it look purple. It shoul look a darker dark-brown at the end. On the shields last page the purple was not really a glaze and because of that it looked like a new transition to purple.
off
On a side note I'm almost finished with the Nemesis-Orphans for Tabletop, and start with an Alahan army that's mostly for display/highTTQ. Then I'll feel your pain of painting NMM-Gold. All those NMM golden lion decorations... they will be painful.
/off
For the blue part:
- there is a bit of frosting on the bottom, but other than that should look dark enough
- now the light blue part, you could push it a bit further with a few extra highlights.
- the lighting direction of the blue and the NMM doesn't match on one the light comes from above, on the other from the side.
Looks much better than the other shield on the top of this page.
The only thing: maybe a bit of a purple glaze on the right side, but you should only use purple not make it look purple. It shoul look a darker dark-brown at the end. On the shields last page the purple was not really a glaze and because of that it looked like a new transition to purple.
off
On a side note I'm almost finished with the Nemesis-Orphans for Tabletop, and start with an Alahan army that's mostly for display/highTTQ. Then I'll feel your pain of painting NMM-Gold. All those NMM golden lion decorations... they will be painful.
/off
For the blue part:
- there is a bit of frosting on the bottom, but other than that should look dark enough
- now the light blue part, you could push it a bit further with a few extra highlights.
- the lighting direction of the blue and the NMM doesn't match
on one the light comes from above, on the other from the side.
chaos spawn
Member
It looks good so far. Imho you should add a (smaller) dark area to the left side of the khorne-symbol as well and work on the rivets, they should all look like the one on the top-right. Other than that: Well done.
If you need inspiration you can always look up how the real masters do it:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VoFM4aW7x...-m-9Ao/s1600/Hajime+Sorayama+-+Sexy+Robot.jpg
http://miscellaneous-pics.blogspot.de/2010/08/hajime-sorayama-gynoids.html
http://www.dac-editions.com/gallery01.htm
If you need inspiration you can always look up how the real masters do it:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VoFM4aW7x...-m-9Ao/s1600/Hajime+Sorayama+-+Sexy+Robot.jpg
http://miscellaneous-pics.blogspot.de/2010/08/hajime-sorayama-gynoids.html
http://www.dac-editions.com/gallery01.htm
BloodFather of Kharnath
Active member
Thank you for taking the time to remark. I agree that the top left looks best. A couple things set it apart from the rest. Mostly it's that it shows very little highlights Most of it is shadow and midtone. Not sure that this would look good elsewhere, but if you think so maybe I should try it??? Please explain this bar of light/cylinder situation some more. Not sure I gather your meaning, but I'm sure it's helpful. As far a the rivets, the ones on the left side I have dotted in pure white. I can't make it pop anymore. Maybe I should go back, paint each rivet a darker color, then dot it with a pure white or #2 highlight??? The central rivet is based in shadow with a white crescent on it.
This thread has been great. I think I get the conceptual piece. It's really just applying it in a realistic manner that is the struggle. For me lately. But as u say practice make perftec.
BloodFather of Kharnath
Active member
I think you are getting better and better with the NMM part. I looks pretty good imho now.
Looks much better than the other shield on the top of this page.
The only thing: maybe a bit of a purple glaze on the right side, but you should only use purple not make it look purple. It shoul look a darker dark-brown at the end. On the shields last page the purple was not really a glaze and because of that it looked like a new transition to purple.
off
On a side note I'm almost finished with the Nemesis-Orphans for Tabletop, and start with an Alahan army that's mostly for display/highTTQ. Then I'll feel your pain of painting NMM-Gold. All those NMM golden lion decorations... they will be painful.
/off
For the blue part:
- there is a bit of frosting on the bottom, but other than that should look dark enough
- now the light blue part, you could push it a bit further with a few extra highlights.
- the lighting direction of the blue and the NMM doesn't match
Good eye on that purple before. I had let it spill into other areas and got sloppy with it but thought no one would notice. But I will darken the right edge with my glaze. I did it once but was very light and selective.
Id if like to see these Nemesis Orphans you speak of. For me, when an object is almost entirely gold it is easier to sell the effect. I used a pretty bad recipe on my Sigvald WIP earlier, yet it still looked pretty good (p1-2 of this WIP). Same with SENMM. Actually, chrome is very hard to sell when you just use it on one or two objects on a mini, but do it on everything and it suddenly works so much better. Part of that illusion everyone refers to. But I'd really like to see these Orphans.
As far as the blue, I totally know what to do here. It's my bread and butter. I've ignored it for a long time, that's why it looks so sloppy. I am SO excited to start freehanding these frozen cracks all over it though.
BloodFather of Kharnath
Active member
Chaos, pleasing you feels the best. To go from "terrible" to "well done" in a week feels great, to be honest!!! And of course I value you opinion, just like everyone else here, as an accomplished artist. So thanks for taking the time to remark.
As as far as your advice on the rivets, that's just what I needed. So base it in a darker shade and then spot highlight. Got it. Notice that some of them are different sizes? That's because I had to resculpt most of them. The originals were lumpy masses with holes in them. Finecast!!!
tha KD for the links. Those are, as you say, the masters.
BloodFather of Kharnath
Active member
If i could have a bit of advice. The rivets on the left side of shield that are on the brightest side. Many of you have said to pick them out more. Well, they are already as bright as can be, being damn near pure white with a pure white spot on top (actually VMC Ivory). Should I create more contrast here though? I would do this by first putting a black wash around each rivet, very gently and lightly, and then coloring the rivet in my midtone. Finally spot highlight with white. Or wondering if that's too much contrast since it's on the highlighted side of the shield. Meaning, should I instead forget the black wash, paint the rivet with a slightly highlited midtone, and then spot highlight with white.
Digganob
New member
Excellent question but sadly I don't have a great answer for you. I would go with your gut instinct and try that first. If your not happy with the result try it the other way. And if neither ways wrk out you can always do what I do. Chuck that sucker across the room and show it who the true Nob is.
BloodFather of Kharnath
Active member
The reason I asked this time rather than just experimenting, is that the gold areas on this mini have been painted about 50 times. Painted, painted over, painted over, stripped, painted over, painted over....etc. I don't wanna stress the finecast out anymore by adding too many layers if such a thing is possible.
This mini is definitely the boss of me. After engaging it in an epic display of martial prowess, in a battle that started on my painting table and ended on the snow capped peaks of Mount Ranier, this Exalted Hero of Khorne bested me in mortal combat. I am now a slave to it. Sometimes he butt strokes me with his axe at like 2 in the morning. PAINT ME!!! He will command, and, despite the protests of my wife, I get out of bed and see to his desires. Yesterday, he told me he doesn't want his cape to be purple. He said its a girly Slaaneshi color. I responded that purple was very striking on him, but he wasn't having it. He wants a blue-green. I told him I don't have all the colors I need for that, but he doesn't care....
...so I guess my second question is, should I go with the purple color in his cape, or make it a sea green? The purple is very strong, was thinking that a color almost like verdigris may look good. Any thoughts anyone?
