Firearms & co... hate or love them?
- Thread starter Tony Manero
- Start date
The second amendment\'s original intention is pretty simple---
It\'s the right of the people to bear arms to protect themselves from the government.
This means the people can form an organized militia independent of the regular army, so to speak. This means that a person can arm himself in preparation of becoming a militiaman.
The amendment was written in the wake of the Revolutionary War. Basically, a government\'s attempt to control a group of people that wanted independence. The government tried to stop them by use of force. If the Colonies were not able to bear arms against the aggressor, it would have been a much shorter war with a much different outcome.
Simply put,
The 2nd amendment was written so that people could defend their other rights----
You know..\"no person can be deprived, of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness......\"
The US Constitution isn\'t meant to be broken down an amendment at a time, it must be considered holistically----as that was the intention when it was written. The rights guaranteed support each other in context and spirit.
As for guns killing people. That\'s BS. A gun, in and of itself, as NEVER killed anyone.
Irresponsible gun owners have killed plenty. Outlaws have killed plenty, psychos have killed plenty.
To coin one of my favorite phrases....
\"All women are equipped to be prostitutes, but that doesn\'t mean they are prostitutes.\"
Next thing you know we\'ll be blaming car wrecks on the automobiles and hangovers on the beer maker.
The government doesn\'t need to regulate guns. They need to regulate stupid.
It\'s the right of the people to bear arms to protect themselves from the government.
This means the people can form an organized militia independent of the regular army, so to speak. This means that a person can arm himself in preparation of becoming a militiaman.
The amendment was written in the wake of the Revolutionary War. Basically, a government\'s attempt to control a group of people that wanted independence. The government tried to stop them by use of force. If the Colonies were not able to bear arms against the aggressor, it would have been a much shorter war with a much different outcome.
Simply put,
The 2nd amendment was written so that people could defend their other rights----
You know..\"no person can be deprived, of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness......\"
The US Constitution isn\'t meant to be broken down an amendment at a time, it must be considered holistically----as that was the intention when it was written. The rights guaranteed support each other in context and spirit.
As for guns killing people. That\'s BS. A gun, in and of itself, as NEVER killed anyone.
Irresponsible gun owners have killed plenty. Outlaws have killed plenty, psychos have killed plenty.
To coin one of my favorite phrases....
\"All women are equipped to be prostitutes, but that doesn\'t mean they are prostitutes.\"
Next thing you know we\'ll be blaming car wrecks on the automobiles and hangovers on the beer maker.
The government doesn\'t need to regulate guns. They need to regulate stupid.
Legacy Account
Active member
That is complete and utter bollocks. They are weapons and are never totally safe - in ANBODY\'S hands.
You\'re absolutely right.
The same can be said for a salad fork.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/australia/nsw/summer/200611/s1796655.htm
I suspect we need to stop people from using those as well.
Or, a pencil, if you will
http://staging1.gazette.net/stories/012307/nortnew231547_32395.shtml
Basically,
If you think of an object, and consider that it *could* hurt someone---it probably *did* hurt someone.
Try it out with an internet search----and see what happens.
It\'s not the weapon---it\'s the person.
The difference between guns and all those other things you mentioned, Rodnik, is that the sole purpose with guns is to hurt or kill other beings. You can\'t build things, use them to eat with, communicate with them etc. That\'s why guns are restricted in many countries whereas tools, cutlery and mobile phones aren\'t.
Oh..my intention is not to imply that guns are built for a specific purpose. And I absolutely understand why some countries restrict them. But the fact of the matter is still---
A responsible person will not hurt someone unless it is absolutely necessary.
The only thing gun control does is *potentially* change the manner in which a person will kill another being. The exception being criminals (they\'ll get guns, regardless).
As far as \"cutlery\" in your list.....it was the weapon of choice long before guns were even considered.
Also, you can look to R&D on about any current technology and see that it has military implications long before general public consumption. Granted, it may only be ties through government research teams, but the purpose is generally to improve a military stature.
Nothing can be said or changed that will change this fact:
If a person\'s intention is to kill someone--that person *will* kill someone.
The method doesn\'t change the motive.
As for killing other beings---
I\'ve seen plenty a person eating a hamburger/chicken/fish that have no idea the path it took to get on their plate.
With that argument---fishing rods should be outlawed as well. They\'re an instrument with which to kill fish.
Yeah, criminals get guns anyway... at least some. But fact is still, that most small time criminals here DON\'T have guns, because they are a little bit more difficult to get hold of (far from impossible, but still...), a little more expensive, and much more risky to own (since it\'s generally illegal). I don\'t have to be too concerned with chavs packing guns on the street. Knives is another thing altogether, but my chances are a lot better escaping from someone with a knife than someone with a gun.
And the last thing I would want is to have to carry a gun myself to be able to feel secure...
And the last thing I would want is to have to carry a gun myself to be able to feel secure...
charley1968
New member
I can have guns in Sweden. But i got to register them.The difference is that a lot of Americans want to bear arms without the knowledge of the government.That makes for lots of guns in unsupervised hands that makes for many deaths.Cuz any grown-up (idiot) may buy/own them.
Poor gun-control makes poor crime-stats.
Poor gun-control makes poor crime-stats.
vincegamer
Active member
Please, if you are going to quote the Constitution, get it right - and preferably in context. \"pursuit of happiness\" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution.I\'m aware of that. I suspected a better poke from you though...
It just so happens this paraphrasing is recognized by most folks that *haven\'t* read the documents created by our forefathers (Dec of Independence, Const, etc..etc..). Mainly due to some of the paraphrasing of human rights in Supreme Court cases--- Probably a bad choice on my part-----
And I\'m aware of that. Do you think we still remember the Civil War? Korea?Vietnam?Or the more recent Gulf altercations? How long has it been? 11 years is nothing. Please don\'t suggest that it wasn\'t still in the forefront of their minds.
And yea..I\'ve heard that fallacious interpretation as well. I commend you on having a stance.
And the last thing I would want is to have to carry a gun myself to be able to feel secure...Nor do I.
I think one of the challenges is the US culture. As a people, we are scared of our own shadows.
Besides...I\'m absolutely in favor of gun control----
It\'s imperative I hit what I\'m aiming at.
vincegamer
Active member
I wish I could site the name of the study but I\'ve forgotten it. Suffice it to say a recent study (by survey I think) of people in many countries concluded that Americans are by far the most frightened people.
Rodnik,
If you think my correcting you on \"pursuit of happiness\" wasn\'t enough from me, then you missed the subtlety of my comment. If you reread the passage you started quoting, the due process clause, it refers to protecting one\'s rights through the law, not through arms.
p.s.
For anyone interested, here\'s a very good reference web site:
Cornell Legal Information Institute
Orb
procrastinator
of course the critical thing is the difficulty of going on a killing spree with either a salad fork or mobile phone.
A gun however, allows for the possibilty of quicker random act of mass killings, as the news regularly shows.
If guns are easily accessible, as in some countries, the incidences of these events are more common. When they are restricted, there is less chance of these happening
A gun however, allows for the possibilty of quicker random act of mass killings, as the news regularly shows.
If guns are easily accessible, as in some countries, the incidences of these events are more common. When they are restricted, there is less chance of these happening
Yeah, I see no problem with responsible people owning fire arms for legitimate reasons (sport, hunting, collecting, etc.), but scared people owning guns (especially hand guns) frightens me quite a bit.Originally posted by Rodnik
Nor do I.
I think one of the challenges is the US culture. As a people, we are scared of our own shadows.
Besides...I\'m absolutely in favor of gun control----
It\'s imperative I hit what I\'m aiming at.
Whenever this sort of topic comes up and I see responses and comments from people around the world, I feel the need to correct a few misconceptions that people seem to have.
1) The majority of Americans do NOT own guns.
2) The majority of Americans that do own guns, do NOT wander around in public with them.
3) The laws that govern handguns are not the same as the laws that cover rifles & shotguns. The handgun laws are generally much more restrictive. Just because you\'d be allowed to own a rifle does not mean you\'d be allowed to own a handgun.
4) Just because you are permitted to own a handgun does not automatically give you the right to carry it around in public.
5) Even fewer people are allowed to carry a concealed handgun around.
People, despite what you see in movies and on TV, America is NOT the Old West. We Americans DO NOT wander around town with six-shooters strapped to our hips just waiting to draw down on somebody for looking at us wrong. Not all Americans are \"armed & dangerous\" We just like to keep you \"fer\'ners\" thinking we are to keep you on your toes.
1) The majority of Americans do NOT own guns.
2) The majority of Americans that do own guns, do NOT wander around in public with them.
3) The laws that govern handguns are not the same as the laws that cover rifles & shotguns. The handgun laws are generally much more restrictive. Just because you\'d be allowed to own a rifle does not mean you\'d be allowed to own a handgun.
4) Just because you are permitted to own a handgun does not automatically give you the right to carry it around in public.
5) Even fewer people are allowed to carry a concealed handgun around.
People, despite what you see in movies and on TV, America is NOT the Old West. We Americans DO NOT wander around town with six-shooters strapped to our hips just waiting to draw down on somebody for looking at us wrong. Not all Americans are \"armed & dangerous\" We just like to keep you \"fer\'ners\" thinking we are to keep you on your toes.
