Firearms & co... hate or love them?

Shawn R. L.

Shawn R. L.

New member
Originally posted by dauber22
Whenever this sort of topic comes up and I see responses and comments from people around the world, I feel the need to correct a few misconceptions that people seem to have.

1) The majority of Americans do NOT own guns.

2) The majority of Americans that do own guns, do NOT wander around in public with them.

3) The laws that govern handguns are not the same as the laws that cover rifles & shotguns. The handgun laws are generally much more restrictive. Just because you\'d be allowed to own a rifle does not mean you\'d be allowed to own a handgun.

4) Just because you are permitted to own a handgun does not automatically give you the right to carry it around in public.

5) Even fewer people are allowed to carry a concealed handgun around.

People, despite what you see in movies and on TV, America is NOT the Old West. We Americans DO NOT wander around town with six-shooters strapped to our hips just waiting to draw down on somebody for looking at us wrong. Not all Americans are \"armed & dangerous\" We just like to keep you \"fer\'ners\" thinking we are to keep you on your toes. :D
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Well said. BTW all Dutch people dont live in windmills either - FYI
 
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Rodnik

New member
If you think my correcting you on \"pursuit of happiness\" wasn\'t enough from me, then you missed the subtlety of my comment. If you reread the passage you started quoting, the due process clause, it refers to protecting one\'s rights through the law, not through arms.
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8). All in good spirit.
And yea..I did miss a little of the subtlety--as my interpretation/what I\'ve been taught are slightly different from yours. Some of the more \"Constitutionally literate\" folks jump when I say \"pursuit of happiness\" instead of \"property\". I thought that was what you were getting at.


But what if someone *does* try to deprive you of your rights without due process?
Say, for instance--
Someone decides to deprive you of your 5th amendment rights---say \"deprive you of life\"----and that person isn\'t bound by due process.....

I can\'t speak to the rest of America/world/etc....but I protect myself---with my right given by the 2nd amendment.
 
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Ritual

New member
You disappoint me dauber... :( I thought you Americans were all like Dirty Harry. I thought you were tough! Now you\'re telling me you\'re just like us? :eek: ;)lol

Seriously, though, I understand that things aren\'t as in the films, but you DO have more liberal laws than us and it is easier to get hold of both guns and, perhaps foremost, ammo. But, I\'m not attacking your country or your laws, I\'m just mentioning my views on the question. I prefer living in a society with less guns, that\'s all.

That is perhaps not strange, since growing up here makes guns quite irregular in your everyday life. So, unless you\'re into hunting or something you\'ll never be around guns. Therefore, guns make most people here feel uneasy.
 
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Ritual

New member
Originally posted by Shawn R. L.
BTW all Dutch people dont live in windmills either - FYI
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No, of course not... they\'re either prostitutes or drug addicts and neither hang around the windmills much! lol
 
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Rodnik

New member
No, of course not... they\'re either prostitutes or drug addicts and neither hang around the windmills much!
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Hell..that\'s enough motivation to get me to sell my guns and move there.:cool:
 
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vincegamer

Active member
Originally posted by dauber22
We Americans DO NOT wander around town with six-shooters strapped to our hips just waiting to draw down on somebody for looking at us wrong.
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In fact, in the state I live in it is illegal to transport a gun unless you are transporting it from a gun-show/dealer to your home or from your home to a gun-show/dealer
 
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Rodnik

New member
Vince...when did it change?

Maryland has always allowed you to carry concealed if you had a permit. However, you couldn\'t transport a handgun over public roads without a permit.
 
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vincegamer

Active member
Originally posted by RodnikBut what if someone *does* try to deprive you of your rights without due process?
Say, for instance--
Someone decides to deprive you of your 5th amendment rights---say \"deprive you of life\"----and that person isn\'t bound by due process.....
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Well let\'s get something straight here.
Are you talking about protecting yourself from an oppressive government or from another citizen?
The only thing the Constitution prevents ordinary citizens from doing is keeping slaves.
The Constitution is a definition and check on governmental powers.

Rodnik,
Our posts crossed.
I was too short. The law is actually much more complex and has many exceptions, such as going on a state-sponsored organized hunt, being a law enforcement officer etc., including in the case of a handgun, having a permit to carry it, so long as you have the permit with you while carrying the handgun. It\'s Md. Code Ann. section 4-203.
The rules for obtaining a permit (which are fairly strict) are at Md. Code Ann. section 5-306
 
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Rodnik

New member
Are you talking about protecting yourself from an oppressive government or from another citizen?
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There\'s no difference in my mind. If it\'s the oppressive government, I just call all my friends to help.

And before you get started on \'em...I\'ve heard the arguments against my point of view. It\'ll save you the writing...:D
 
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Modderrhu

New member
Originally posted by dauber22
1) The majority of Americans do NOT own guns.
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Now that is just plain untrue! I saw a documentary once, Law & Order, and every hotdog vendor had a gun embedded inside a sausage. And if that\'s not proof enough of the American tendency towards violence, check out the documentary called Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
 
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Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by vincegamer
Originally posted by Evil Dave
Originally posted by ModderrhuGeorge Washington and his army were in fact a militia, as the US was not a recognized state.
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Definitely not true and non-sequitur.
Washington\'s army was an army. The fact that the government of the united colonies was not recognized by most other countries (a couple did so immediately I believe) does not render an army into a militia.
An army is an organized group of trained professional soldiers.
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Sorry, wrong.
Militia
Technically, the National Guard is considered a Militia.
Pay attention to the \"well regulated\" part.
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airhead

airhead

Coffin Dodger / Keymaster
Originally posted by dauber22
Whenever this sort of topic comes up and I see responses and comments from people around the world, I feel the need to correct a few misconceptions that people seem to have.

1) The majority of Americans do NOT own guns.
I do

2) The majority of Americans that do own guns, do NOT wander around in public with them.
I do

3) The laws that govern handguns are not the same as the laws that cover rifles & shotguns. The handgun laws are generally much more restrictive. Just because you\'d be allowed to own a rifle does not mean you\'d be allowed to own a handgun.

4) Just because you are permitted to own a handgun does not automatically give you the right to carry it around in public.
True, you are supposed to get a concealed carry permit - but that does not stop the bad guys

5) Even fewer people are allowed to carry a concealed handgun around.
I do

People, despite what you see in movies and on TV, America is NOT the Old West. We Americans DO NOT wander around town with six-shooters strapped to our hips just waiting to draw down on somebody for looking at us wrong. Not all Americans are \"armed & dangerous\" We just like to keep you \"fer\'ners\" thinking we are to keep you on your toes. :D
Then why do they call it \"tourist season?\"
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And to make a point, Ted Kennedy has killed more people with his car than I have with my guns.
 
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Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by vincegamer
Sorry, but not wrong.
My description fit one of the 5 definitions given at Wikipedia
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Exactly, all five of which are accepted definitions of militia.
Since your description, by your own words, is described by the five definitions, it would be a militia.

edit: Also, at exactly what point does a farmer or lawyer or any person, become a highly trained soldier? Or even a soldier at that?
 
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vincegamer

Active member
yes, drunk driving kills.
That point has been made again and again. It\'s not going to convince anyone.

Crossed again.
E.D.
It\'s my understanding that it is a question of occupation. A militia member - in the context we were discussing, i.e. the 2nd amendment - is not a professional. He does not fight for a salary and his equipment is not provided by his employer.
 
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Evil Dave

New member
@vincegamer
As a military man, I speak from experience. We are afforded all the rights, privileges, and titles of the military when we take the oath to the Constitution of the US.
Which you pointed out was written 11 years after the War of Independence was fought.

Are cops soldiers? It\'s an occupation that involves training and weaponry, and often involves fighting for a salary as well as being supplied by their employers.
 
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philologus

Subgenius
As far as handguns making murder easier, it depends. The highest death toll for school massacres in the U.S. happened in 1927. No firearms involved. It might have been the largest mass murder bodycount as well but I\'m not sure. 45 dead, 58 wounded.

LINK
 
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