Firearms & co... hate or love them?

Legacy Account

Active member
Science is about proving facts.

There is more than enough evidence to support the theory of global warming, all from people who know more about it than you or I Dave. Just use your eyes and an open mind.

My point is, do you want to simply dismiss the possibility through sheer bloody mindedness or because it\'s easier, or perhaps find a different way to fuel our lives that could benefit our societies regardless in the long run?
 

Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by Spacemunkie
Science is about proving facts.

There is more than enough evidence to support the theory of global warming, all from people who know more about it than you or I Dave. Just use your eyes and an open mind.

My point is, do you want to simply dismiss the possibility through sheer bloody mindedness or because it\'s easier, or perhaps find a different way to fuel our lives that could benefit our societies regardless in the long run?
I am a scientist. Physics.
I\'ve read far more of the actual reports, and publictions than you can even realise and I notice a trend that is quite alarming, a propensity to show only the data that supports your theory while disregarding the data that doesn\'t.
To put it bluntly, most of the research I have seen is utterly biased crap, with the theory firmly in place before the data is even gathered. That has been refuted and rebutted by many.
 

Rodnik

New member
It\'s probably relevant to call out that the Theory of Global Warming is exactly that...a theory. Not so long ago, we had a theory of Global cooling....

What that means is scientists don\'t have enough compelling data to draw a conclusion....so they offer up opinions based on the data/statistics to support their own personal views on the matter----which often leads to even less \"incomplete data\" being presented.....

Is the world warming up...sure. Has it before...sure. Does the world climate operate on cyclic pattern..sure. Is it man-made---who the hell knows for sure? Nobody.
Are all the ocean\'s gonna evaporate next week and all the world\'s people spontaneously combust right before we explode in a virtual supernova of gases and dirt? Probably not.

I place my bets on being sucked up into the black hole at the center of Andromeda---I mean hell..that\'s only about 200 million years away---and the Earth is already 4.5 billion years old. I think the Lucy skeleton was dated to about 3 million or so....so yep....just a few weeks in astronomical terms, and we\'ll all suffer \"spaghettification\"...

I\'ve bigger things to worry about than Global Warming. I don\'t mind having to buy an additional air conditioner....but I don\'t like the idea of me being stretched end to end until my atoms pull apart....:eek:

http://hubblesite.org/explore_astronomy/cosmic_collision/striking_encounters_high_bandwidth.php
 

Legacy Account

Active member
Originally posted by Evil Dave
...utterly biased crap, with the theory firmly in place before the data is even gathered. That has been refuted and rebutted by many.

*Ahem*
Trying not to make a comment about US foreign policy....

This is why you need to cite articles from high impact, peer reviewed journals like Science or Nature to support your arguement. I\'m sure they\'ve published plenty on the subject, but unfortunately I\'m not a subscriber!

My mrs is a scientist. Two BSc, MSc, Phd. Doesn\'t make her an expert on climate change. The only thing I personally have to go on is the overwhelming evidence from so-called experts. You know, the jolly sort of fellows that gave us such wonders as gravity, the theory of relativity and the internal combustion engine.... :)
 

Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by Spacemunkie
Originally posted by Evil Dave
...utterly biased crap, with the theory firmly in place before the data is even gathered. That has been refuted and rebutted by many.

*Ahem*
Trying not to make a comment about US foreign policy....
Whatever your comment may be it really doesn\'t matter.
Politics isn\'t Science.
Politics isn\'t about facts, it\'s about opinions, and people\'s beliefs.
A politicians beliefs, his religion, and his hair play more into getting voted in than the facts do.
How much money he\'s willing to spend on propaganda is even a bigger factor.
 

Rodnik

New member
There is more than enough evidence to support the theory of global warming,

If there were...it wouldn\'t still be called a theory.

I still say we should be more concerned about our entire galaxy being snuffed out of existence.....8)
 

uberdark

New member
yet again i feel as if this is becoming bash america day. our stuff smells thats true. i wont deny it. even our former vice president admits to it in a great documentary. the thing is that some ppl here are going too far yet again. there are plenty of countries that have problems with how they do things. not just ecological and i will not bring them up because i have enough respect for those in other countries not to put down the entire country because of what a few have done wrong or even a large amount. this is what always ticks me off. get off the proverbial high horse and smell your own poo. sorry but stop it man. many of us are doing our best. i recycle, have a car that gets 34 miles to a gallon and always buy recycled things as much as possible. i am one person and i am making my own decisions to improve this world. so when you bash america which is what it is plainly, it hurts me, and i cant help but take it personal. i am proud of my country which most of you are with your countries, but please just stop it.
:flame:
i will not be responding to this thread again. which is why i usually dont respond to these types of threads since my first experience with them was so bad. do something proactive guys instead of pointing the finger whether your american or whatever country you are from. :)
 

Legacy Account

Active member
Originally posted by Rodnik
There is more than enough evidence to support the theory of global warming,

If there were...it wouldn\'t still be called a theory.

Unfortunately the boffins have failled with their attempts to convert a 1982 Delorian into something that might actually be useful. Their attempts at precognition have also met with a similar fate.
Scientific best guess it is then. It\'s served mankind pretty well up to now.

@Uberdark: Why so defensive about one person\'s opinions? It\'s not a personal attack, just having a good old arguement. As for the UK, you\'re damn right it has problems. I could write you a list if you have enough time :D You suggest doing something pro-active. That\'s exactly what I\'m suggesting as well!
 

philologus

Subgenius
I have seen a lot of graphs showing the temperature increase (most of them have suppressed zeros) What I have never seen is a graph of what the global temperatures should be without human induced global warming. What would those look like? What is \"normal\" fluctuation?
 

Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by Spacemunkie
Scientific best guess it is then. It\'s served mankind pretty well up to now.
Rarely. It has generally been the one scientist or entrepreneur who has gone against the concensus that has furthered our knowledge more.
 

Legacy Account

Active member
Dunno, but I\'m with you on nuclear reactors. Best way forward for generating power at the moment.

@Dave: It\'s all we\'ve got - if we wait for proof, we could end up in the shit. We might already be in the shit. We might be ok, but some of the ideas I\'ve seen bandied about today involving pumping gas into the air and sea just seem wrong...
 

philologus

Subgenius
Originally posted by Spacemunkie

Scientific best guess it is then. It\'s served mankind pretty well up to now.

Yes, like the hysteria surrounding the 1910 appearance of Halley\'s comet.

The \"scientific\" evidence that certain ethnic groups were inferior to others. (Darwin\'s grandfather was part of this camp)

The hysteria induced by scientists in the US in 1992 over the New Madrid fault in the US.

The hysteria (backed by experts) over Y2K.

The hysteria over breast implants being dangerous, (now we know they\'re not). This caused the collapse of Dow Corning (lots of folks lost jobs and their professional reputation by association) due to lawsuits with no basis in medical fact.

Global Cooling.

The list goes on and on scientists and doctors creating paranoia, the media inflates it even more (especially if there is a big company with deep pockets involved)


Interesting link with other catastrophes science predicted.
Discover magazine
 

vincegamer

Active member
the world is getting warmer.
There is a likelihood that human actions are increasing the trend (clearly it\'s not \"caused\" by humans).
Even if they aren\'t, human actions sure as hell aren\'t slowing it.
So I say we try to cool the earth a bit or slow the rate of temperature increase.
 

Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by vincegamer
the world is getting warmer.
There is a likelihood that human actions are increasing the trend (clearly it\'s not \"caused\" by humans).
Even if they aren\'t, human actions sure as hell aren\'t slowing it.
So I say we try to cool the earth a bit or slow the rate of temperature increase.

And what if it is a completly natural cycle?
Historical data strongly suggests that it is. Sure we\'ve shown a trend in the last hundred years, but lets go back a few thousand, or million years, there is evidence we haven\'t even hit temperature highs that were there before man exsisted. Where are we at on the cycle between Ice Age and Equatorial temperatures, are we in the trough, are we still on the decline of the ice age, the rise of the temperate age? We don\'t know. There is far more of what we don\'t know than of what we do know.
What if by screwing with the cycle you do far more damage than good?
We have a tendency to do that.

I\'m not saying that Global Warming does not exsist, I am saying we know too little to jump to rash conclusions of who, what, when, and where or what to do, if anything, about it.
 

Bobinator

Member
I\'m with Dave on this one, there is no global warming apart from that which is caused by the natuaral cycles of the earth. Let me explain, firstly we all know that the Earths orbit is not a perfect circle and does change over a period of time in relation to the distance of the sun, this change in distance is measured in millions of kilometers. Secondly, the energy output of the our sun also changes, this happens over the course of a few thousand years in complete synchronisation with the ice ages, but scientists do believe that there is a slight flux every eleven years not much of one but noticeable, hence all the really hot summers people remember are all roughly ten to eleven years apart. So thats two very interesting points which I personally feel can explain changes in global climate. I have also read other articles which also state that monks were growing grapes to produce wine as far north as yorkshire some three to four hundred years ago, and since the slight increase in temperature over the last few decades can do so again, so we had a cool spot and now a warmer period is due. Take into account volcanic activity, one active volcano emits more harmful gases in one day than all the cars in the world would emit in a decade, so since there 79 active active volcanoes how many times should we have been burnt to a cinder already, and have we? no. The world has been travelling around its happy little orbit for millions of years, some times extremely cold sometimes extremely warm, and at the end of the day there is little we can do to actually change it, even a full scale nuclear winter would change it for only a very short while until the climate reverted to normal levels. The gulf stream is another favourite of the green lobby, so what if it switches off, it has done so since the atlantic came into being and will do so until the end of man. Even now in parts of Scandinavia the surface of the earths crust is rising at a huge measurable rate and the reason for this is because of the melting of the ice caps that were present during the last ice age, which in some places was three miles thick, so now the weight of those huge caps have gone the earth is reshaping itself to what it once was. Also records show that sea levels have a habit of rising and falling by as much as three hundred feet, evidence has been found that man could walk on dry land from England to France and from Malta to Tangiers. The rivers of the Rhine and Thames were actually linked and flowed together into the north sea, this all ended with the ending of the last ice age and the melting of the ice, but will come about again (dont forget these changes dont happen over night but do take a very long time). I\'m afraid the global climate disaster we all face is pure BS, invented by various parties for the benefit of themselves, global warming is more about money, politics and oppression, used by the rich to drive down the living standards of the poor while keeping themselves secure in their positions of power. If we all go the way of green power like wind or solar power we are doomed to a slow and painful death, not ours but that of our children and their children, death by taxation, these windmills they plan to erect all over the place are just the beginning of the end, they dont run when theres to little wind and dont run when theres to much (they spin to fast and are prone to flinging sails) so they run on average about three hours a day. Hmmm... you dont get much power from that. Nuclear power is the only option we have, if you disagree you\'ve got your head up your ass and havent read up on the subject, it safe, clean, and produces power that could, if enough were built, be practically free, the French have an excellent setup, they got so much power they sell it to us, how daft is that!, why are we waiting for something that should have happened thirty odd years ago, we got the technology to remake our world, to free us from the constaints that limit power puts on us, who puts these constraints there and why are questions that ought to be asked, we being hindered from gaining the greatness mankind deserves.
 

philologus

Subgenius
For those who belive there is a \"Scientific Consensus\" worldwide on this issue think again. Below is a link to the Oregon petition. Over 17,000 dissenting scientists who disagree with the mandate of the Kyoto protocol.

The biggest problem with the global warming debate and what causes my skepticism is that the \"solution\" fits so neatly with leftist political ideology. All the corrective measures call for expansion of govt. in the form of regional energy rationing committees. Who would these committees answer to? Each govt. which would then answer to the UN. This would facilitate the favorite hobby of UN officers, embezzlement. Govt. will always try to increase its purview and ability to extort money from citizens (whether natinally or globally). Statistically the protocols outlined in Kyoto would not result in any significant reductions, so the response would be:\"we need to do more work\" therefore \"we need more power/money\" never trust science that backs politics. The IPCC report from a decade ago on this issue had among its august panel of scientists, one in the field of gynocology (you can\'t make this stuff up). If anyone doubts the good intent of the UN just read their charter and their millenium goals.



Oregon Petition
 

Shawn R. L.

New member
quote:
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Originally posted by funnymouth
laugh all you want about global warming, and say it isnt real all you want, but it is happening. it wont be over night, but it will be significant. did we cause it? no, not exactly, the world undergoes cycles. are we infuincing it? undoubtedly. or influence will make itself evident, and i feel no need to argue the point further.
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One thing that never changes about the climate is that it is ALWAYS in flux. The rush to blame it on fossil fuels, to me, is just that, a rush.
 

Shaetano

New member
I\'m just a bit worried about the fact that the incline seems to be faster than the previous fluxes...
I\'m not the least bit worried for me, as i won\'t be around when (and if) the global warming thingie happens. I worry for my off-spring... even when it\'s not about global warming, fossil fuels are not unlimited. Then what are we going to use next? Water? Wars will be fought over that stuff, and that\'s a prediction. I\'m not as worried about the global warming as i am about pollution and de-foresting (is that a word?)...
But all bits help, i guess...
 
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