GW painting standard?

[shinjikun1]

Originally posted by Braveheart712
With all do respect, I think you need to quit defending GW while you are behind, way behind. If you are trying to tell us that they have made a firm and calculated corporate desicion to paint like garbage and produce substandard minis, then I guess GW is in far worse shape then we all imagined. Defending their current \"Let\'s all paint like 3rd graders\" approach is as insane as my 12 year old telling me at report card time that he was really only trying to get C\'s not A\'s. Cool conversions painted like crap still equal crap.

I hope that nothing I post here offends anyone. Im not defending either side of this debate. I am only telling what I know based on my 4 years working at GW, as a Hobby Center Manager. As for the model done by Mr.Miles Horry, as shown above, Im sure we all agree It is not the highest level of painting skill. To call it \'Eavy Metal or to comapre it to, would be a mistake. Mr. Horry is not a member of the GW Studio or \'Eavy Metal. He is a \"Hobby Specialist\", which means his position is one of the following possibilities: Hobby Center Staff (Red Shirt), Hobby Center Manager (Black Shirt), or Mail Order Troll. Again these are not oipinions, just my deductions based on my personal experiance.

 

[Braveheart712]

No offense taken. It is good to hear from an \"insider\" like yourself, and if your company has anything like an open door policy I hope you can communicate to them that their current sloppy and haphazard features seem to be having a deterimental affect to their image. I feel that their current marketing stategy has turned off far more customers than it has attracted, but of course that is my opinion.

As for the argument that we have display minis and gaming minis, both painted to different standard, I agree, however my gaming standard and most of my fellow gamers paint WAY better than what is being shown here. I am in NY state as well and have visited the GW stores in Buffalo and Syracuse, and have seen the quality of the staff \"red shirt\" painters minis and they are far better than what is being featured. Please don\'t take this as a personal attack, but there is no excuse for the butt aweful minis being featured. Had they been posted here, I think they would be lucky to get a 5.0.

 

[MalleusMiniArt]

hmmm... i have to admit i don`t understand this \"painting like average joe\" approach too. one of the things that make me interested in the hobby were pics of beatifully painted models, even though i`ve got my first mini when i was around 12 years old.
on the other hand i haven`t seen market results of it. if it works i don`t think we will see top notch painting standard on the pages of WD soon.
also i think that general quality of painting has gone up. when i look at the old catalogues, army books etc the paintjobs i see there are no longer so impressive for me liek they were a couple of years ago.
still i don`t like things that gw has been doing recently and i almost completely stoppped buying their products. to some degree i enjoy collecting minis and it looks gw does not care much about this part of the hobby. moreover i think they work really hard to get \" don`t care about opinions of our customers\" image .

 

[shinjikun1]

@Braveheart: no sweat. You just need to yell out FREEEEDOM!!! like your namesake.lol just kidding...ex-insider by the way. I agree most HC Staff are awsome and unacknowledged. One Idea i had as a possible comparison of the current direction of WD is The Citadel Journal. Now I\'m sure you cant say that was an unenjoyable publication.

 

[Sturmhalo]

To be honest the eavy metal team standards are fairly good. What you have to look out for are the figures and armies painted by the studio staff. Yeah, the eavy metal team cut corners, and you can see it sometimes, but that\'s what you have to do when painting becomes a matter of time and money.

Articles in WD featuring staff armies and the like though do usually show pretty sh*t paintjobs. Look at the shite shown in the LOTR section, or that Necromunda campaign that\'s running at the mo in WD! Never thought I\'d be defending the eavy metal lot lol

Oh and also, the stuff painted for fanatic can be pretty crap as well. In fact most of the stuff painted for fanatic by \'fanboys\' is pretty sh*t to be honest. Never trust an amateur I say!

:moon:

 

[shinjikun1]

Originally posted by Sturmhalo
To be honest the eavy metal team standards are fairly good. What you have to look out for are the figures and armies painted by the studio staff. Yeah, the eavy metal team cut corners, and you can see it sometimes, but that\'s what you have to do when painting becomes a matter of time and money.

Articles in WD featuring staff armies and the like though do usually show pretty sh*t paintjobs. Look at the shite shown in the LOTR section, or that Necromunda campaign that\'s running at the mo in WD! Never thought I\'d be defending the eavy metal lot lol

:moon:

I can only comment on the US WD, but its not even an issue of Studio Staff. I Know alot of these guys and they are just retail. but IMHO there are alot of retail staff that should be Studio!

 

[Infidel Castro]

You guys don\'t half get worked up by trivial matters

 

[Ebonbuddha]

Actually. I write a post, then I see something else to reply too. I use to lump post in one. then caused confusion and started an arguement.
Yes. I like to sow Discord.lol

Originally posted by Wolf_Fang
both of ya enough! lol

 

[Modderrhu]

I admit it was rather unfair...

Originally posted by shinjikun1
... As for the model done by Mr.Miles Horry, as shown above, Im sure we all agree It is not the highest level of painting skill. To call it \'Eavy Metal or to comapre it to, would be a mistake. Mr. Horry is not a member of the GW Studio or \'Eavy Metal. He is a \"Hobby Specialist\", which means his position is one of the following possibilities: Hobby Center Staff (Red Shirt), Hobby Center Manager (Black Shirt), or Mail Order Troll.

... to call a non-\'Eavy Metal painter into it, but the intent is not to judge him personally, but rather the publications of GW. As braveheart so nicely said, it reflects on the image of the company. An image that is already poor due to pricing and a well-noted inability to listen to customers.

GW have some incredible sculptors and painters, some incredible concept work too. But this is often undermined by their lack of attention to quality. I\'ve commonly had horrendous casts from them (metal and plastic) which have needed removal of detail to remove the mould lines. And now less-than-six score stuff from them. It justs seems that quality is not one of their concerns anymore.

 

[Ritual]

In order to be fair...

Now, while everyone probably agree on the fact that some stuff in WD nowadays look really crappy, I think everyone will also agree that this is pretty cool:

Pretty decent painting (by the EM staff, I presume...) and a very cool sculpt.

 

[Avelorn]

I think this thread is generally unfair to the painting level of the EM team. I don\'t know why some people dig up pictures of people not in the EM team to illustrate that EM sucks? Maybe misunderstandings? They aren\'t as good as Rackham, but if you don\'t get why, you ought to take a look at the average GW customer. Read the explanation by shinjikun1. Their strategy has been really successful.. the only true competition they\'ve felt in recent years is actually from Vallejo. To sum it up, their studio armies generally look good on the battlefield, and that is what matters for the company GW. They hire the amount of talent they need.. and give them the amount of time they think will be resonable. Finally I agree with Sturmhalo on what he said.

You know it\'s funny.. I don\'t like their policy at all.. and I feel odd defending GW. But don\'t take GW\'s shortcomings out on the members of the EM team. They are a bunch of talented people that tries to survive on what they love to do.

 

[Modderrhu]

Originally posted by Avelorn
I think this thread is generally unfair to the painting level of the EM team. I don\'t know why some people dig up pictures of people not in the EM team to illustrate that EM sucks? Maybe misunderstandings?

Not misunderstandings, but to illustrate a point, that GW are not publishing paint jobs of the standards that we\'ve seen in the past. Nothing to do with the \'Eavy Metal team, but everything to do with GW\'s marketing.

Originally posted by Avelorn
You know it\'s funny.. I don\'t like their policy at all.. and I feel odd defending GW. But don\'t take GW\'s shortcomings out on the members of the EM team. They are a bunch of talented people that tries to survive on what they love to do.

On that point, I could not agree more. Indeed, we have a perfect example of that sort of person in Astonia and ex-\'Eavy Metal Tammy, and we know what exceptional quality they are capable of. But just to reiterate; it\'s GW\'s marketing, not \'Eavy Metal that\'s being questioned.

 

[Avelorn]

@Modderrhu

Okey.. if that is your point, I agree.

However I feel that this discussion is about the studio paintjobs.. and when I re-read the thread I say that it would be the easiest interpretation. The hobbyists that publish in the WD or on the web paints like average joes because they are average joes. The main marketing of GW is done mouth-to-mouth.. and in the shops with introduction games.. and courses for newbies etc. etc. The WD itself contains a wide variety of minis to attract different customers.. to give inspiration. I\'m generally put-off by the amount of tabletop quality minis they show.. I find it much more interesting to visit cmon.

In marketing.. my personal opinion is that they are neglecting the over-the-top minis. WD have more or less stopped showing them. One recent example is the showcase of Chris Blair, one of my favourite UK painters. What did they show? Not one of his GD entries.. nothing that could be entitled GD winning standard.. just his average gaming troops and some fun conversions. IMO they need people that can give the extra shine to their sculpts.. making people like \'us\' want to buy them. I saw a converted rendition of those awfully sculpted manhunter dogs recently in the WIP thread.. and I felt that I wanted to paint them! But probably they\'ve done researches and found that paintingfreaks are such a small percent of the GW income that it doesn\'t matter. People like me aren\'t brand-faithful or build many armies.

 

[Legacy Account]

I\'d bet some cash that that one Anders posted is by Anja.

It\'s white and green..... Trademark colours!

On the other matters, most peoples painting would be less than top notch if they were being slave driven to knock out shit loads of minis a day....

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie
I\'d bet some cash that that one Anders posted is by Anja.

It\'s white and green..... Trademark colours!

The thought crossed my mind, but I wonder if these elves weren\'t painted already when she started. It\'s only a bit more than a month since she started.

 

[Anatora]

Originally posted by MalleusMiniArt
hmmm... i have to admit i don`t understand this \"painting like average joe\" approach too. one of the things that make me interested in the hobby were pics of beatifully painted models, even though i`ve got my first mini when i was around 12 years old.
on the other hand i haven`t seen market results of it. if it works i don`t think we will see top notch painting standard on the pages of WD soon.
also i think that general quality of painting has gone up. when i look at the old catalogues, army books etc the paintjobs i see there are no longer so impressive for me liek they were a couple of years ago.
still i don`t like things that gw has been doing recently and i almost completely stoppped buying their products. to some degree i enjoy collecting minis and it looks gw does not care much about this part of the hobby. moreover i think they work really hard to get \" don`t care about opinions of our customers\" image .

Not off subject. I\'m a few days late reading this thread, so I will throw in my GW experences as a retailer. Unless GW has improved in the last 2 years, and I can see that it probably has not, Gw\'s marketing policies have not changed. GW experienced a sharp downturn in sales in 2001-2002 when the new edition came out. My customers revolted against their \"new\" policies and turned to other tabletop games, which gave a big boost to other companies.

Beside carrying the largest collection of miniature lines in the South, our store carried the full line of GW. We made a large contribution to the GW bottom line in the US every month, but the sales reps, shall I say, sucked. The last one yelled at my partner (a fatal mistake) and demanded we give up every other line of minis we carried and convert only to GW. I finally refused to deal with three in a row (rude and pushy) , then refused to buy any GW at all. That drew me a call from the new GW manager just fresh from Australia. He called himself a\"troubleshooter\" that GW brought in to boost the failing US market. Don\'t think I didn\'t tell him what was wrong. His answer...it works in the UK, it will work here... I cited the lack of quality control, the price increases, and the lack of support to new players in presenting their product with terrible visuals, like crappy painting pics. Why not put their best foot forward if the goal is to sell more minis? Answer...we don\'t care. I swear, that is what he said. Needless to say, I told him good luck, but I was out of the GW business. Guess they haven\'t changed at all.

 

[Avelorn]

@Scott: I don\'t think it\'s Anja.. too close in time so to speak. And I think it\'s too much contrast for an Anja work. I don\'t think the EM team choose their colours themselves either.

@Anatora: \"We don\'t care\" That\'s just crap. I think GW\'s profit has gone up and up, with a downturn after christmas this year.

 

[Modderrhu]

Originally posted by Avelorn
However I feel that this discussion is about the studio paintjobs.. and when I re-read the thread I say that it would be the easiest interpretation.

And I\'d say the other way around, since the space marines first referred to aren\'t \'Eavy Metal jobs, or are they? ??? Not like it matters anyhow, we do agree with each other when we know what the other is talking about. lol

Originally posted by Avelorn
...I\'m generally put-off by the amount of tabletop quality minis they show.. I find it much more interesting to visit cmon...

Well, I think you echo my gripe pretty well there. I looked at that conversion that I posted the link to, and I thought it was pretty damn cool. Might even have done one for myself, except that I looked at the close-ups, and they actually put me off. I just couldn\'t be arsed to copy it anymore. I definitely find that somewhat counter-productive to GW\'s reason for showcasing the conversion.

Edit:

Originally posted by Anatora
Answer...we don\'t care. I swear, that is what he said.

Most of us should recall, or perhaps still participate in Micro$oft bashing. However, here are the exact words I got from a Micro$oft rep once; \"We\'re Microsoft, we don\'t care what you small companies think.\"

 

[vincegamer]

Back when Ma Bell was a monopoly, Lili Tomlin had a routine where she played a phone operator. Her closing line was:

\"We don\'t care. We don\'t have to. We\'re the phone company.\"

Just replace phone company with Microsoft, Games Workshop, or any other big company you happen to dislike.

 

[EavyMetal]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie
I\'d bet some cash that that one Anders posted is by Anja.

It\'s white and green..... Trademark colours!

I\'ll take that bet

Anja joined us a couple of months after the Wood Elf project was finished. That Highborn was done by Pete Foley, and very nice it is to. :bouncy: