I AM FED UP

Infidel Castro

New member
Mr Font, I just said I\'d like to see an elite website. I didn\'t tell you to piff off. I know you\'re not first-language English-speaking, so I just want you particularly to know that I meant it should be an added bonus, you damned fine painter you! ;)
 
ok im sorry then for my misunderstandings, no way i wanted to be mean :D anyway i agree with you then that an elite painter website would be great as well. I mean, in conclusion i think cmon is the best mini website there is (no doubt). I am nearly addicted to it, i log in every day in the year since i discovered it, its just about some SMALL details that could be solved (i hope there is indeed a solution) so it can be EVEN better!:D

PS. Here in Spain the wife doesn\'t get the husband\'s surname when they marry, so the children get the 1st surname from each of them, and we usually use the 1st one :) so id be Mr Moretó better hehehe just giving some spanish culture lessons :)
 

Infidel Castro

New member
Quite right, but the tail often wags the dog here (similar Spanish idiom anyone?) and it all gets quite sanctimonious at times. However, I see the point and it probably does need addressing in the future. Otherwise, chill!
 

neonlights

New member
Hi everyone, I help Borg out on the website, maintaining stuff, and creating a few new bits and bobs.

Let me add my thoughts on the whole site, and this \"issue\".

CMON started off several years ago, and was created by a couple of enthusiastic hobbyists, on their own time and for fun. I\'m guessing at the time they had no idea the size and popularity that it\'d eventually grow into.

This is important to note, because when I look at the code, it says it all. Chern, did a great job setting up the site, considering that he\'d taught himself to code :cool:. And it was originally coded with the expectation to handle a several dozen users, and maybe several hundred images. Over time, as the number of users have grown, new functionality has been added which the CMON community has suggested.

I work as a web developer, so I\'d like to think of myself as a pro :), and from what I can see of the code, it\'s pretty much near it\'s limit in terms of how much more it can be tweaked to add new functionality to the site before it really keels over for good.

Now, onto the subject at hand. It is possible to add a mathematical algorithm to \"patrol\" the votes to weed out the snipers. But, it will make the site even slower than it is already, and not to mention the work required to integrate it in, which I have to do on my spare time, for free (all will be forgiven if you vote 10 for me :D)

I paint just like all you other mini crazies out there, and I\'m not in the top 100, hell not even in the top 500 (850 last time I checked, did I mention my gallery? :p). So for people like me, which is 80% of the site, any and all votes matter. If there are some people, who have nothing better to do than sit there voting 1 and 2 for every mini, well, what can you do? Like a democracy, eventually it\'ll work out, as hopefully there\'ll be loads more voters who will cancel out the blips. (Unless I\'ve been targetted for assination for crimes against minis) And if I want that overall 9 rating, I\'ll have to be a whole lot better.

While I can understand it\'s cut throat being at the top, and every decimal point counts, just remember it\'s a public site, for everyone, for fun! And this is what adds to its popularity, and charm. And the best of the best, like the top 50, so what if you slip a few places? It\'s all subjective anyway, and at that level not everyone (amateur or pro) will agree on who should be ranked higher than who, but everyone will certainly agree that all those up there deserve to be.

If someone is sitting there sniping in order to bump their own ranking up or to have higher ebay prices, well good luck to them.
CMON community ain\'t that dumb, they can see and compare with their own eyes.

I think it is possible to hide the voting panel from non logged in users, but even if we restrict it, what\'s to stop someone from creating a dud account and sniping away? Then it\'ll mean that someone would have to patrol the accounts and check on people giving low votes. So we\'d have to have another layer of administration, like the FBI, to check up on this.

Well, we could take it to the next level, and create an \"elite\" group, where you\'d have to be special to get in, heck to even get to vote on it. Even better, the elite group could have their votes count for double, and can give negative votes! In fact, to keep the database trim, we should just delete out all the \"lousy\" minis and users, so that if you don\'t score more than 6 after being on the website for 6 months, then you\'re out! Hell if you\'re not even good enough for your table top, why do we want to see it?

Do we really want to politicise CMON, a website for the hobby of miniature painting?
Perhaps we need to put it to a vote.
 

No Such Agency

New member
Originally posted by JakeSh
Boo hoo. I\'m tired of hearing people cry because they aren\'t fellated by all the members of this board daily for their \"masterpiece.\"
Not MY scene. There\'s some scratchy-looking moustaches in some people\'s pics :(

Some very good points made here, especially the interesting one about CMON\'s codebase scalability :eek: And no, I don\'t think \"politicizing\" CMON would be a good idea at all, nor would reserving a section for \"elite\" painters (who is elite? Is #199 elite while #200 is left down among the proles?)
 

Legacy Account

Active member
As if an elite site would work anyway - it\'d be an even bigger bun-fight!

There will never be a perfect solution to the problem anyway, so I prefer to just appreciate what we\'ve got. CMON does seem to be creaking under the weight recently, and I reckon we won\'t appreciate what we have here until it\'s gone.

I\'m not religious but I pray that never happens!
 

Dammekkos2

New member
Originally posted by Spacemunkie
As if an elite site would work anyway - it\'d be an even bigger bun-fight!

There will never be a perfect solution to the problem anyway, so I prefer to just appreciate what we\'ve got. CMON does seem to be creaking under the weight recently, and I reckon we won\'t appreciate what we have here until it\'s gone.

That\'s exactly what I think. And I\'m sure CMON won\'t last forever.

I think most of us are on a level playing field - sniping is probably distributed evenly, so has a lesser effect. It is probably annoying if you feel you\'ve been specifically targeted, but I think the anti-sniping measures combat that type of stuff.

And how would the opposite of sniping be stopped? (where someone collects lots of top votes from friends etc etc).
 

Zordana

Member
What about the graph idea (similar to hotornot.com). I\'d be happy just seeing how many 1\'s 2\'s 3\'s etc I was given for my miniatures.

And, as someone else said, at least then people would be able to say \"aah, its rated crap because people have given it weird votes\" and vice versa.

You could just remove the top ten last seven thing to make room for it ;)
 

Chern Ann

Only when they're green
Staff member
Although it\'s nice to be flattered, CMON is by no means a huge site in terms of visitors. We get a few thousand unique visitors per day, and if I changed the system to disallow anonymous voting, no one would ever get 50 votes simply because of the huge volume of new pictures we receive every day.

Of course, what I could do is appoint 25 judges so that the average they give is highlighted against the \"rabble\", but this goes against CMON\'s egalitarian spirit, and you can just imagine the accusations regarding fair mindedness and impartiality when you\'re using known judges. Unless someone\'s getting paid for this, I doubt it\'d be worth the grief.

I\'m not too concerned about CMON\'s scalability in the short to medium term, after some patching it\'s performing well under load.

I would regret it if anyone, regardless of votes or scores, decides to pull their work.:(
 

Infidel Castro

New member
So that solves it all...we\'ll carry on as we always have! It\'s a free website and I\'m just glad I can hang around here. Cheers Chern!
 

Chern Ann

Only when they're green
Staff member
Let me explain....

I\'m not in inprinciple against the idea of a group of judges, if I can find them some who are acknowledged as masters in the field and are prepared to sit down at their computers for an hour or so everyday to really look at entries.

Now, I\'m a doubting Thomas but I do think they\'d be better off painting and getting paid for it. The GD and similar comps are annual events, not something you need to do everyday. It\'d be almost like being a teacher having to grade papers for a living.

BUT, having said that, if there are brave, dedicated volunteers prepared to do it for free and subject themselves to the inevitable slings and arrows, please step forward.
 

Infidel Castro

New member
Aye, but everyone would start with good intentions (those of the 25 chosen ones) and, over time, things would slip and it would become a completely fallible system. I think it\'s a good idea in principle, but in practice it would fall apart quicker than the omelette I made on Wednesday!
 
Yeah. And I just couldn\'t help thinking of a \"pro painters only\"- site.

Would, say... a very good painter snipe another very good painter, just because (as everyone is good) the own works don\'t inspire awe in absolutely everybody ?
Just hypothetical, of course :innocent:
 

Brimshack

New member
Is it possible to adjust the ranking system so as to ignore scores exceeding a certain standard deviation when reporting the score?
 

Einion

New member
Originally posted by Godlikebuthumble
Would, say... a very good painter snipe another very good painter, just because (as everyone is good) the own works don\'t inspire awe in absolutely everybody ?
It\'s not really a question is it? You see the same basic thing in show judging of all kinds.

There is a certain amount of unconscious bias in judging - which all judges should strive to overcome - but some of it is clearly wilful and based on petty little grievances (there have been reports of this at the Crufts and Westminster dog shows frequently for example, and there\'s a lot more at stake there than in some mini competition).

Einion
 
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