NMM: - A triumph of style over substance. Discuss.

[finn17]

My own views about NMM have changed considerably over the last few months. Initially, I was extremely impressed and then I became even more impressed when I started to see the work of artists like Arjay etc. Now, however, I am starting to feel that NMM is a bit of a \'flash in the pan\'. Yes, it can look good. Yes it has a place in the minipainters toolkit. I would now however, reject the idea that this is a revolutionary approach that will supplant standard metallics. I know I wil get comments stating that this was never the case, but, if you read comments on a lot of minis the general trend is to totally denigrate \'ordinary\' metallics in favour of NMM.
There are comments out there that suggest or state blatantly, \" I would have given you more points, but you haven\'t used NMM\".
In addition to these concerns I now see a lot of minis which supposedly use NMM, but in actual fact are simply NM - Non Metallic. Is it just me, that finds blue swords, green armour and brown axes totally non-realistic? Has the emperor no clothes?

What do you all think?

 

[Nelson]

That\'s a toughie. you\'re right, i\'ve seen tons of minis that have been docked points because of the lack of nmm. but the truth is, nmm usually looks better than mettalics, and when there is a mini with good metallics, it\'s not punished. however, when it\'s an outstanding mini, and you\'re considering voting a 10 or golden demon, you\'ve gotta pick it apart as much as possible. i think nmm is here to stay, but only on a mini that really suits it. my dwarf army won\'t get a nmm makeover, thats for sure, no matter how big nmm gets. i agree with you about coloured nmm. if it\'s senmm that\'s coloured, well that works. otherwise it\'s just a magic sword, or laquered armour. well, that\'s just a newbies 2 cents

 

[Chrispy]

Well, by the time I\'m writing this I haven\'t done too well with metallics. All I\'ve done was drybrush them over balck and that\'s it. When NMM with the Rackham models started coming out, I tried it and I\'m still practicing today. I think it fits a bit better now that I know better about it than metallics.

I do, however conceed some minis (not gonna name) have WRONG NMM!! WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! And they get 9\'s for this? I know this is supposed to be the artist\'s vision, but please show me a fantasy world that breaks all rules such as basic physics of light and reflection.

Well, sorry to ruffle some feathers, but I needed to say that. Don\'t kill the Alahel..

 

[Otter]

I\'m basing my opinions of NMM on the colored Elfquest comics. Anyone ever read these? They were very well-drawn books that were first published in the 1980s in black and white, and metal was shown through alternating contrasts in grays, whites, and blacks. When the books were colored for printing, blues and similar colored reflections were added to bring out more contrast.

Whenever a piece looks like the artist tried to go for \"cartoon\" or for graphic design art, NMM looks more appropriate to me. In pieces that try for realism, metallics look better.

- Otter
\"Never send a ferret to do a weasel\'s work\"

 

[Errex]

As said before, NMM is a very tricky technique. It is a lot less forgiving than metals, and a \"regular\" execution will always be received badly. The painter has to really excel at painting smooth gradients to pull it off.

Now, metallics normally are not applied with the same care than regular colors. Very often, one can find superbly highlighted miniatures in wich the metallics seem to be an afterthought.

I find that, to the naked eye, a single coat of metallic paint over a black basecoat seems to be enough, but when exposed to the kind of lighting used for taking pictures, these rush metallic jobs show the flaws in the form of apparently irregular or spotted surfaces, wich in turn diminish the overall score of a given mini.

Now, I\'ve seen both mediocre NMM and superb metallic work, so, bottom line, if you take the time to polish your techniques, whatever they be, you will consistently improve.

 

[elouchard]

The thing I find about metallics is that they give a nice separation of colors on a figure. NMM is a bit restrictive in that metal armor is going to be made of the same colors that clothing will be, just with different highlighting. A metallic paint will never look like clothing (or shouldn\'t).

Metallics are deceptively tough to use, though, and it has taken me a while to get comfortable blending and highlighting them.

 

[Sturmhalo]

NMM certainly seems to be flavour of the month (year?!). There are a handful of painters out there that have truly mastered the technique and produce incredible pieces using it. But then you have a lot of people who just end up doing grey swords and yellow belt buckles. I guess we\'ve all got to start somewhere though!

I think NMM works best on those models that have hugely exaggerated weapons and the like (massive, over-sized axes etc). It suits Rackham quite well because their models are sculpted in an exaggerated style (I\'m going to upset everyone though and do the Rackham pieces I recently acquired using metallics!).

I prefer metallics to NMM on my own models. I agree they can look bland if you just slap on some silver though. I think this is where the snobbery starts. It\'s bloody hard to make NMM look really good, but people think that if you use metallics you just slop the stuff on and away you go with your cheap and cheerful mini. Not the case. You can do that, but your mini will look shite! Proper highlighting of metallics is quite a skill as well.

My two penneth (yes, we still have our currency in England! )

 

[DELTADOG]

hmm .. NMM vs. Metallics

I`m now painting since 13 years, when I began NMM was no topic. today it is a hulk about this. I gegan to try and learn this technique 4 years ago but I dont use it too much.BUT if I post here a mini and I`m painting it before (means, not take out of my glasbox photo it and post) I keep in mind that a NMM on a mini make better scores. I consider to this people which painting only for the art itself so I give up playing years ago. and yes I try to get a godd /better score cos I want to work some day in a graphic job!
but I have my frontiers I only use it on minis on which it really fit!!! Historicals with NMM have to get a 5 in my eyes! NMM is a technique to make a mini more comic styled but the mini itself have to look comic like to that it fit. that the worst point here I have to decide only post minis on which the NMM fits - get better score - thats good if I will link my gallery in a portfolio , or to post otherminis sometimes with metallic and get lower scores - looks not so fine for a portfolio

I think it is time to tell the people again that NMM and Metallic is not a criteria to vote is a mini good or not if the paintjob i is both well done because to paint a GOOD METALLIC is also not so easy as a good NMM.
btw. to the problem with the wrong physics reflections in NMM style..... if I have very difficult surfaces like supercurfed swords etc. I photo it first and after this I lay a reflectionstexture in photoshop over it to show me where the reflections have to be.

 

[Rachel]

hrmm - I don\'t like the poll questions much, it\'s a bit \'all or nothing\'... either you\'ve gotta be superfantastic or you can\'t use it? I don\'t know.

I\'m still very much getting the hang of it - can\'t do a decent \'sky earth\' to save my life, I\'ve tried and it looks crap on anything but the smallest areas. However, for some styles of painting and some kinds of minis I definitely prefer the look of nmm. I don\'t think that it\'s style without substance at all, any more than metallics are \'inferior\'. I prefer it with muted minis, or minis with a particular lighting direction.

This is because I think that the nmm allows for a more precise highlighting - not that I think metallics are bad, because they can be used very nicely (Jakob Nielson anyone? ). However, there\'s also the thing about the reflections not moving as you move the mini. I know a lot of people have stated this as the reason they don\'t like nmm - for me it\'s the reason that I do! Sure, the nmm doesn\'t move, but neither do any of the other highlights on the model . It\'s like the mini is in it\'s own world, lit by it\'s own sun (or suns, whatever), so it\'s odd to have one bit painted according to that, and one bit reflecting the lounge lightbulb.

I like it on more pastel minis, or more naturalistic schemes - metallics often seem too \'strong\' in colour, a bit too obvious sometimes?

Very much personal preference though - I can\'t imagine rating a well-done mini lower just because it didn\'t use a particular style. It\'s a bit sad - like the people who\'ll knock down a perfectly executed figure because they don\'t like \'cartoony\' (which appears to mean clear colours and good definition )or \'naturalistic\', or because \'space wolves can\'t be red!\'.

It\'s constantly fascinating to me that the technique is so controversial! It always seems to be inspiring heated debates on newsgroups and the like - I haven\'t seen the same grumpiness emerge over blending vs layering for example .

 

[No Such Agency]

Missing Poll Option:

\"NMM is a stylistic choice preferred by some artists and avoided by others.\"

Metallics are tough to use too, though I admit that masterful NMM is among the most advanced techniques anyone in our hobby uses. But I\'ve done some really nice (IMO) work with metallics, as well as some real crap And I\'ve seen rich, gorgeous, realistic metallic treatments on this site which let me know that it\'s possible to render metals well without NMM. If I could do NMM well I might use it on some figures, but I sure wouldn\'t stop using metallics.

 

[Aschul]

A few of my thoughts...

Generally I like the way NMM looks. However I dislike the \"static\" aspect of it. People seem to think that when you are highlighting a miniature you are establishing a static light source somewhere around it. I don\'t agree with this. I believe that you are highlighting a miniature simply to enhance it\'s three dimensionality.

I\'ve noticed that my friends who aren\'t into miniature painting dislike the look of NMM. They seem to think metallics are better and more realistic looking.

I don\'t do any NMM myself, and I find it amusing that people occasionally applaud my use of metallics, as if I were doing something innovative or original!

One thing that does bother me is when people do an average job of painting a model, but add some gimmicky NMM somewhere on it and people just drool all over it.

I also dislike the whole \"optical illusion\" aspect of it, as that\'s what it really is. It depends on your eye/brain interpreting what you see as \"metal\", instead of just varying shades of blue/grey/whatever.

I\'ve also been toying with the idea of doing NMM just so my minis will get higher ratings! Sometimes it seems like if your models don\'t have NMM, people don\'t really give them a second though, and NMM is the only thing that gets peoples\' attention.

I really wish people would put more effort into their metallics; that\'s what I try to do.

 

[finn17]

Profuse apologies...

Originally posted by Rachel
hrmm - I don\'t like the poll questions much, it\'s a bit \'all or nothing\'... either you\'ve gotta be superfantastic or you can\'t use it? I don\'t know.

and....No Such Agency\'s missing poll option:
\"NMM is a stylistic choice preferred by some artists and avoided by others.\"

OK! Sorry folks. I apologise. I know the poll questions are a bit stinky, but it was 2.00 or so in the morning when I posted that topic. My blood pressure had been raised by the fact that I could not get my hands on the new CMON book and I thought I would let off steam by starting a controversial topic and getting something else off my chest. The poll just seemed a bit of fun and a way of getting people\'s interest but I do appreciate the options could possible be improved, to say the least.

Mea culpa:duh:

 

[paleotaur]

Hmmmm.... I sometimes have the sneaking suspicion that NMM hatin\' is the age old dread of change rearing its ugly head in our fine hobby. That \"things just aren\'t as good as they were in the old days\" type of thing. I\'ve been painting off and on about five or six years, and I never found myself very comfortable with metallic paints. They simply do not look as much like metal as we are led to believe. Don\'t get me wrong, I have seen some very fine things done with metallics. I think both styles need a lot of practice to achive good results. One thing for all you NMM haters out there to consider, though. What salient difference can you possibly maintain between the attempt to create the illusion of shadow and highlight that is the entire basis of what we do when painting minis, and the attempt to create the illusion of varying levels of reflection and refraction that is NMM technique, except that it may be more difficult?

 

[Vidja]

I\'d say I\'m voting for No Such Agency\'s statement - it\'s a matter of personal taste, although it\'s undeniable that NMM is \"trendy\" right now.

I really admire well-executed NMM pieces, but I still like the old-fashioned metals better... and I think metallics are more difficult to control, and thus more penalized by an unexperienced hand; NMM is hard because you need to understand light and reflections theory very well in order to master it, but once you\'re fairly confident about that and know exactlywhere the horizon line is, then it\'s like painting flesh or clothings - you\'re as good as your transitions are.

As for coloured armour and weapons... well, I don\'t mind them. They may be not very realistic, but it\'s Ok with me as long as they look good... that\'s one of the reasons why I\'ll never be into historical stuff!

 

[finn17]

Early days...

I guess it\'s just early days. I am certainly not a hater of NMM. I have seen some fantastic examples and think that it is a wonderful addition to the painters armoury.

I also feel that it is, as yet, poorly understood by a lot of contributors. There are occasions when NMM is the onlyway to go. Equally there are occasions when the choice of NMM would be a mistake. It saddens me therefore, when I see a comment along the lines of, \"good job, would have awarded more if you had used NMM\". Such a comment may be justified, but I have certainly seen this sort of comment applied to minis where NMM would just have looked plain silly.

I guess what really worries me is the \'new broom sweeps clean\' analogy where, in some peoples eyes, anything that is not NMM is, by definition, inferior.

Rachel has probably pointed to the future by comapring NMM V metallic with blending V layering. Eventually, when the \'newness\' and mystique has worn off we will lok back and wonder what all the fuss was about:bouncy:

 

[Infidel Castro]

NMM is easier once mastered...

I really think that NMM, once mastered or at least understood, can achieve a good result more easily than M (metallic lol). SENMM is that little harder than NMM, clearly, as it looks unnatural until completed successfully - the inbetween stages must have you pulling hair out lol.

M is just damned hard! I\'d suggest that more brushwork and delicate washing/glazing is required to make a good M job, and the problem of texturing needs skill to overcome. And patience. And water. And a great dry-brushing technique in some cases.

One thing I do find though, is that some well-placed basic NMM on very small areas of a mini can compliment larger areas of M. This is something that needs care, but does work. I\'ve always found that on pommels and even small hilts (with sword in scabbard for example), it\'s better to use the NMM style instead of going M and having an isolated and annoyingly reflective, shiney blob of paintwork.

I don\'t think I\'ve put myself across very well, but the point is that NMM and SENMM is more akin to normal painting though in a different context, whereas M is more difficult to master (consistently), but done properly is the equal of any other style. And on top of that, as many have said, the genre of the mini, it\'s animation, style, whatever, really does make it a case of take or leave any style and justify your choice through a cracking paintjob wherever possible .

Credit for making me think is given to Errex, Vidja, Sturmhalo, Finn, Rachel, Aschul, No Such Agency and Elouchard, and a very good point made by Paleotaur:

\"One thing for all you NMM haters out there to consider, though. What salient difference can you possibly maintain between the attempt to create the illusion of shadow and highlight that is the entire basis of what we do when painting minis, and the attempt to create the illusion of varying levels of reflection and refraction that is NMM technique, except that it may be more difficult?\"

Just shows it\'s a normal painting technique and needs mastery as any other. And Aschul just to wrap it all up:

\"I really wish people would put more effort into their metallics; that\'s what I try to do.\"

Absolutely lol.

By the way, do you think Ian Fleming could sue me from beyond the grave for using \'M\' so often? Maybe 007 will come around on Her Maj\'s Service and try to kill me?

I\'ve got Halle Berry with me though, so I\'m safe!

Rev

 

[Infidel Castro]

Sheesh

That sounded soooo preachy!

 

[supervike]

preaching to the choir...

Sometimes the NMM effect is done so well, that is becomes the focus of the entire miniature.

That is not necessarily all bad, but it is a bit like noticing only the hubcaps on a fine sports car.

There was a thread a few weeks back about using metallic paints, but using a SENMM type technique. I still think it sounds like it could work, but due to my lack of sophisticated skills, I can\'t pull it off.

Yeah, NMM is here to stay, but darn it, I still want to use the pots of metallics I have.

 

[finn17]

Originally posted by reverend
I\'ve got Halle Berry with me though, so I\'m safe!Rev

Thank god for that!!! I was beginning to wonder where she\'d got tolol

 

[Tuubje]

I can\'t do NMM, so me thinks it stoopid







naah, if done by skilled painters it looks great, however it takes some skill to do, I don\'t have that skill, and thus my NMM looks horrible, I stick to \"just M\", drybrushed or applied in several layers

oh, by the way, no matter how fast I run on that silly donkey in my avatar, you can never avoid a trend. NMM is trendy right now, but it will stick around...