Non-Americans can be sooo gullible
- Thread starter vincegamer
- Start date
vincegamer
Active member
That would be nice, but I think there is a misuse of a term here, and because I can be an anal git about this I must correct it.
Immaculate conception = coming into existence without original sin. (literally \"clean union of sperm and ovum\")
- According to the Catholic Church, Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the product of immaculate conception. That means her parents \"made the beast with 2 backs\" but the product of their copulation (Mary) was not afflicted with the sin that Adam and Eve caused to be imbued in all of their descendants.
So, while it would be nice if all those kids were born without original sin - in a pure state - it has nothing to do with your argument.
Therefore I conclude that you misused the term Imaculate Conception when you really meant Virgin Birth.
Virgin Birth is the idea of a child being born of a woman who has not had intercourse (like Anakin Skywalker).
That\'s an interesting point and distinction. After all those years of CCD, I still had the impression that Virgin Birth and Immaculate Conception were on and the same. That Jesus was the offspring of Virgin Birth comes as no suprise, but that the Mother Mary was the product of Immaculate Conception is a new idea, to me anyways. Thanks, Vincegamer, I\'ll have to dig some more into that.
To all: Haven\'t been following this thread closely, politics andreligion are areas that hold only limited interest for me. I do feel, however, that tolerance between individuals will in the end promote tolerance between nations. Call me a blue-eyed idiot, but strict adherence to religious and political dogma is what causes war..oh, yeah, and, of course, greed.
At&T had it right wiht their jingle \"Reach Out and Touch Someone\". Just remeber to do it with an open hand , not a clenched fist.
I don\'t really see how that relats to the rest. And I\'m not that familiar with african history. But if I got my facts corrects the UN got there to late to stop the mass killing of the tuties by the hutus ( or the other way around, forgive my ignorance there). The reason for this was not due to UN beeing ineficient but to the fact taht very little infomations comes out of those countries, and by the time the world was aware of the events in rwanda most of the killing had been done. The UN did stop the conflict and set up a international tribunal wich convicted the leaders of crime against humanity (same has the nazi leaders in neurenberg).
If you are trying to tell me the UN are incapable of doing there job well I would have to disagree strongly. Man of all nations (US included, and probably more than others) have risked their life to stop conflicts and save life. They have stoped conflicts in various countries and thus saved quit a good number of lives. Saying that they do nothing is in my opinion a lack of respect to all those man who agree to get killed in the name of peace. What the US government dosn\'t seem to realise is that the UN interventions are peackeeping interventions, they do NOT have an invasion army, but an startegie that is based on protecting local populations. If they do feel the need to strick they call upon the OTAN, wich they did in bosnia to stop conflicts ( another UN sucesse).
Infidel Castro
New member
If Mary was of the Immaculate Conception, why was it not spread throughout mankind to do away with sin in the first place? Would have been much easier, surely?
Shawn R. L.
New member
Ya know, blue, yeah, blue, that\'s a nice color to use. It\'s pretty..... Makes things look happy.
vincegamer
Active member
Marineboy:
\"That Jesus was the offspring of Virgin Birth comes as no suprise, but that the Mother Mary was the product of Immaculate Conception is a new idea, to me anyways. \"
With all the discussion around the naming of a new Pope lately, the issue of papal infalibility has come up frequently.
Throughout the history of the Catholic Church, the only time the Pope has officially claimed Papal Infallibility is in declaring that Mary\'s conception was imaculate.
The idea is that prior to baptism, humans are with sin and thus separated from God by sin. Mary is special among humans because God, who is all-knowing and all-powerful, would never allow His mother to be separated from him, so she had no original sin.
@Reverend
well, it would have been easier just not to give people free will.
Instead, Jesus died to break the hold of original sin. The concept is that God became human as Jesus so that a human could be born without sin and live an entire life and die without ever sinning. Thus the hold original sin had on us was broken, and through grace and good works humans can be united with God.
This release is retroactive so that all souls that had died before Jesus were released from the bond, and if they had lead holy lives, they would get into heaven.
\"That Jesus was the offspring of Virgin Birth comes as no suprise, but that the Mother Mary was the product of Immaculate Conception is a new idea, to me anyways. \"
With all the discussion around the naming of a new Pope lately, the issue of papal infalibility has come up frequently.
Throughout the history of the Catholic Church, the only time the Pope has officially claimed Papal Infallibility is in declaring that Mary\'s conception was imaculate.
The idea is that prior to baptism, humans are with sin and thus separated from God by sin. Mary is special among humans because God, who is all-knowing and all-powerful, would never allow His mother to be separated from him, so she had no original sin.
@Reverend
well, it would have been easier just not to give people free will.
Instead, Jesus died to break the hold of original sin. The concept is that God became human as Jesus so that a human could be born without sin and live an entire life and die without ever sinning. Thus the hold original sin had on us was broken, and through grace and good works humans can be united with God.
This release is retroactive so that all souls that had died before Jesus were released from the bond, and if they had lead holy lives, they would get into heaven.
@ Vincegamer
Thus, if I understand gcorrectly, the death of Jesus served as the baptisme of the souls that had gone before him. All of us here (providing we subscribe to the Christian doctrine) are delivered from the onus of original sin by the sacrament of baptisme. Hmmm, not to make light of it, but it does sound pretty handy. A benificent God could of course have forgiven our forefathers outright and thereby dispensed with the guilty cross we\'ve had to bear throughout the history of mankind.
My sunday-school teachers never put the subject in such a clear form. They were far to busy hammering us with the ten commandments, especially the \"Thou shalt not commit adultery\" one. When asked what \"adultery\" was, the reply came, \"To use your body like an animal!\"
Long nights I lay awake as a child , wondering as which animal I should not use my body. Slither as a snake? Bark like a dog? How could this be sinful?
Those poor old sunday-school teachers....
Sorry for the reminisce, Vincegamer. I\'ll be reading up on this subject.
Thus, if I understand gcorrectly, the death of Jesus served as the baptisme of the souls that had gone before him. All of us here (providing we subscribe to the Christian doctrine) are delivered from the onus of original sin by the sacrament of baptisme. Hmmm, not to make light of it, but it does sound pretty handy. A benificent God could of course have forgiven our forefathers outright and thereby dispensed with the guilty cross we\'ve had to bear throughout the history of mankind.
My sunday-school teachers never put the subject in such a clear form. They were far to busy hammering us with the ten commandments, especially the \"Thou shalt not commit adultery\" one. When asked what \"adultery\" was, the reply came, \"To use your body like an animal!\"
Long nights I lay awake as a child , wondering as which animal I should not use my body. Slither as a snake? Bark like a dog? How could this be sinful?
Those poor old sunday-school teachers....
Sorry for the reminisce, Vincegamer. I\'ll be reading up on this subject.
Well of course the UN could have left milosevitch butcher up the bosnian and then nobody would have though of blaming them.
But the historical truth is that the UN intervention stoped the conflict, of course they didn\'t stop everybody from beeing killed but I really don\'t see how you could exepct that from anyone in war. In the long rune they saved quit a lot of lives and I\'d love to see how you\'d prove me wrong on that, because milosevitch wasn\'t about to pull out he was set on ethnique epuration.
But the historical truth is that the UN intervention stoped the conflict, of course they didn\'t stop everybody from beeing killed but I really don\'t see how you could exepct that from anyone in war. In the long rune they saved quit a lot of lives and I\'d love to see how you\'d prove me wrong on that, because milosevitch wasn\'t about to pull out he was set on ethnique epuration.
darthfoley
Active member
Not to mention attempting to squash all other forms of religion (or even their own religion with little twists), turning a blind eye to the Holocaust, and generally jumping about claiming to be better than everybody else cause their particular invisible guy in the sky told them to.
Neither of you has the moral high ground here.
Legacy Account
Active member
*Shoots thread with blaster*
\"Boring conversation anyway......\"
Only 10 days to go......:bouncy:
\"Boring conversation anyway......\"
Only 10 days to go......:bouncy:
vincegamer
Active member
Yes, barking like a dog is sinful because dog is god spelled backward and it would be a violation of the 1st commandment to immitate god.
(okay I made that up)
Sadly, religious education is an oxymoron. You only really learn religion if you choose to look into its past, and as this thread has pointed out, Christianity doesn\'t like to look at much of its past.
I was at an Ann Frank exhibit and there was a photo of the Dutch bishops all giving Hitler the Nazi salute.
I learned the real stuff when I was older. I was raised by a pre-Vatican II convert to Catholicism. That meant I was as self-righteous as anyone else, but where I came from Catholics were the liberals and the severe minority so we weren\'t pushy about it. We kept to ourselves. In college I majored in Medieval History and learned much of what dad taught me was wrong.
philologus
Subgenius
@DarthFoley: I\'m not trying to occupy the moral high-ground here. And I\'m not trying to convert anyone. I was answering a broad generalization about a group of people I served with who were selfless and did not turn an entire population into prostitutes.
And I can spell.
And I can spell.
darthfoley
Active member
Originally posted by philologus
And I can spell.
Yes, that is a point in your favor.
