Rant on dutch Identification law...

[Minigrrrl]

RIDICULOUS! absolutely ridiculous.

Basically, form the first of January in The Netherlands, you have to
carry a legal identification card/passport/driver\'s licence on you at
all times. The Police are doing blitz checks all over amsterdam(I
assume the rest of Holland) to check for people who don\'t have
one/carry it on them, and are fining them 50 Euros if they cannot
produce one on the spot.

A way to cull illegal immigrants and have more control over
criminals? i think not, sounds like a way to make an easy buck by the
government, tourists are primarily targeted in the inner city of
amsterdam, the police doing checks in busy areas such as the red
light district, shopping centres and the museum areas.

I\'m walking around with my passport on me, but am not going out at
night for these last few days, simply because if I get mugged again,
I can\'t go back home.

Let this be a warning for all of you who where planning to visit
this \'fair\' country this year, make sure you always carry
identification, cause it might turn into an expensive joke if you
don\'t...

BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU...

 

[ramonlaan]

Blehhh...

How UnDutch is this eh? I always pride myself on coming from this country which, small though it may be, always was the epitome of \'laid-backness\', or \'Relaxed-ness\' (in the modern western world I mean...). Not so anymore.

Now, I personally always carry my drivers licence on me, but this is only recent that I got it.... I never carry my passport on me.

It really reminds me of something I used to despise: I live in Utrecht, a city full of students. There are a lot of bikes arround Utrecht and a lot are in , well, lets say, pretty bad shape. Illumination is very often not there. Now, once in a while the police would do controlls in an area where a lot of students passed by. I always suspected them to do this to get the \'ticket\' (fine) quote for that year.

So, in a parallel: I only think they do this to get extra income (the state).Either by all those ID cards they sell or by the fines...

BOLLOCKS!

Tammy, lets start a counter offensive on all tourist boards around the world telling the tourists not to come to Holland anymore because of this... See how the govenment would like this Amsterdam would go broke in no-time...

Ramon

 

[green stuff]

It\'s been already the case in France for years. I think they can even stop you if you don\'t have 7€50 on you.

It depends on the cities, but they usually don\'t apply it very strictly. I think drivers licences can even be enough for ID.

Not to go into a big debate on whether it\'s a good or a bad law, but as long as your conscious is clear and you have your papers, who cares to get ones ID checked every now and then?

By the way, isn\'t this law applied in all the Euro countries?

 

[Corvus]

Here in Belgium that law already exists for 30 years or so, so I always have my ID with me if leave the house. It\'s just something you get used to, and it makes it a lot easier for the police to track down criminals

 

[green stuff]

Message original : ramonlaan
So, in a parallel: I only think they do this to get extra income (the state).Either by all those ID cards they sell or by the fines...

Just for the cause of knowledge : french ID cards are free .

 

[ramonlaan]

Oh, I understand the pros\' (I think). And I agree that there is something to say for it, but it is hard for us (hardheaded) Dutchies. Whenever our government decides something that could limit your personal freedom we dutch tend to agitate against it.... it\'s just in our nature... But eventually we get used to it.

Taking mr Crowley literally here would be quite an appropriate credo for the dutch: \'Do what thou wilst shall be the whole of the law\'

Ramon

 

[finn17]

ID cards

ID cards are about to be introduced over here too. They even reckon ours will carry biometric data Fingerprints or retinal scans.

Whoop-de-dooh:|~

 

[ramonlaan]

I have no idea actually if they charge you for the ID cards here.... I just natually assumed this was the case as it is also typically dutch

Ramon

 

[finn17]

No idea how much our ones are gonna cost...

Current figures being bandied around suggest 80 to 100 GBP. Typically English...???

 

[green stuff]

It\'s only been a couple of years that the french ID cards have been free. They now also take your finger prints when they make them.

I understand the whole \"freedom thing\", but with globalisation (implying all the good and bad that comes with it), I prefer being bugged every once and a while with an ID control than risk anarchy. Do keep in mind that I\'m only expressing general ideas in few words on a vast question, so I accept other people\'s opinions on the subject .

 

[ramonlaan]

Originally posted by green stuff
I understand the whole \"freedom thing\", but with globalisation (implying all the good and bad that comes with it), I prefer being bugged every once and a while with an ID control than risk anarchy. Do keep in mind that I\'m only expressing general ideas in few words on a vast question, so I accept other people\'s opinions on the subject .

As do I my friend It is always hard to express feelings on subjects via the net.. No harm intended at all....

And yes, Globalism is something that is happening more and more. I am just affraid that there are certain people who see this ID thing as an opportunity to enrich themselves (As Finn said... 100 GBP is indeed MAD!) or as an opportunity (and this scares me much more) to bandy their racist viewpoints on the public.... There are some politcians who are extreme right wing and they can\'t stop talking praise on this subject etc... Brrr.

Ramon

 

[Minigrrrl]

the id cards cost 10 euros or something i believe. the thinhg that bothers me is that it\'s applicable to tourists as well, they\'ve been doing rounds stopping people at random in the centre of town, i just got stopped too, but had my passport with me. It\'s ridicilous to force people who do not live in this country to carry expensive id papers on them always, with the risk they might get stolen(having been mugged in amsterdam not 2.5 weeks ago, the possibility is very high indeed). It\'s been all ove rth epapers today that a lot of tourist are getting fined for not having theirn passport on them when the go sightseeing...

Obviously the whole idea behind it is silly Ithink. i mean, do you really think criminals would carry real id cards when they attempt to break into your house for instance?

 

[green stuff]

Message original : ramonlaan
As do I my friend It is always hard to express feelings on subjects via the net.. No harm intended at all....

Absolutely none taken .

French ID cards used to be arround 600 francs, which is about 90€.

The last big discussion in France about ID controls and the 7€50 was for beggars. Some cities were planning stuff like sending bus loads of squatters (sp?english?) out of the cities, but to send them where?

There was also a discussion on the European ID card or passports : should they have your religion on it? Grece wanted it (they are very proud of their religion), but finally gave in. And now Poland wants it. IMHO it should stay a private matter whether you are a believer or not.

 

[Rab]

Not to go into a big debate on whether it\'s a good or a bad law, but as long as your conscious is clear and you have your papers, who cares to get ones ID checked every now and then?

Me.

I don\'t see why I should be legally obliged to identify myself to anyone if I\'m behaving in a perfectly legal manner.

As Finn\'s already mentioned, ID cards are planned for the UK too and the entire process already smacks of a fiasco.
Given that any new system the government introduces invariably costs 300 times the initial estimate, all this scheme is going to do is cost me and every other taxpayer a pile of money.

I already have 3 forms of photo ID, driving licence, company ID card and passport, but that\'s not enough apparently, the politicians want every identifying feature of a person embedded in a plastic card.
Why the hell should I be forced to pay out more money just to put some paranoid politician\'s mind at rest?

Anybody who thinks that this will combat terrorism and illegal immigration is sadly mistaken. These people already have fake passports and I\'ve no doubt that they\'ll manage to forge ID cards too.

I\'m with Tammy on this one, it\'s a sad state of affairs when a goverment, of a supposedly free country, fears it\'s own populus to this extent.

It\'s not a case of having something to hide, it\'s a case of refusing to be licensed to walk down the streets of the country of my birth.

Ooh it feels good to have a wee rant now and again

Rab.

 

[Ritual]

We don\'t have any such law in Sweden and as far as I know, the matter has not been discussed (at least not in public). I think it\'s demeaning of a modern society to have such a law!

I thought the Schengen agreement was about opening the borders between countries in the EU. Apparently it\'s about constantly having to prove you\'re a legitimate citizen. :flame:

 

[Corvus]

Here in Belgium we must always carry 2 cards arounds: our ID card, with a picture, year and place of birth, home address, etc (soon to be replaced with an electronic one), and a card called a SIS card, which holds your entire medical history. So whenever you go to a pharmacy to buy medication, that information is stored on that card.

And if we\'re driving a car, we should also carry our driving license...

 

[jah-minis]

bollocks

i have to say i\'m not suprised that holland is becoming more like the rest of the world\'s countries who have already bowed to the pressures of american style controls...america claims to be the land of the free, but there are so many laws now it is impossible to know when you are breakin\' them...i got stopped by the police the other day because i was ridin\' my bicycle with headphones on the other day...they wanted to give me a traffic ticket, but the cop didn\'t have the papers(of course he broke five or six traffic laws just tryin\' to pull me over)...then they searched me and found my weed(good for another ticket and confiscation of my herb)...of course, as an anarchist, i didn\'t have i.d., so straight to jail i went...i spent the weekend there, and when i saw the judge monday morning i got time served...no worries...now as a man who has live free tattooed on his fingers, you know i\'m not gonna follow some stupid law that has nothing to do with stoppin\' crime, and i\'m definitely not gonna pay some fine to the man...i would rather spend some time in jail to exercise my civil disobedience, than do what society tells me to do...i don\'t bother anybody, so i don\'t see why they need to bother me...when i get back to amsterdam, i will not be carryin\' my passport around...when the cops stop me they can give me a ticket, and it will go right in the trash...until i have kids, and have to be a role model, it\'s rebellion full stop!!!

peace out
jah

 

[Avelorn]

nowadays we are all guilty until proven otherwise.

 

[finn17]

May the force (farce?)be with me...

Originally posted by green stuff
There was also a discussion on the European ID card or passports : should they have your religion on it?

In the last National Census I put down my religion as \'Jedi\', so I will just put that on my card as well:flip:

 

[green stuff]

Message original : finn17

Originally posted by green stuff
There was also a discussion on the European ID card or passports : should they have your religion on it?

In the last National Census I put down my religion as \'Jedi\', so I will just put that on my card as well:flip:

LOLROTF

For the others : to put things straight, of course I would love to go where I want when I want without having to show ID. But did you know that the terrorists that flew into the Twin Towers had out-dated green cards. For those who don\'t know, that means in the States that if you are caught in such a status, then you are banned for life from visiting the USA. If their ID had been checked, then maybe things would have been different. Nowadays, they are constantly asking foreign students to show their green card in Universities.

This is going to sound stupid because I can\'t find the correct english words, but we no longer live in a world where everybody knows one\'s neighbor. Don\'t go thinking I\'m paranoid or anything, it\'s just that anarchy has never been my thing .

By the way, in case you didn\'t notice, ranting is a national sport in France . And I\'m holding off because you are such nice people .