Thick Skin

[Avicenna]

I think the other thing that is brought into the light here is the way people vote. The way Tony comes to his score of 1 is extremely critical as a 5 should be tabletop quality and the miniatures seem (although i\'ve not seen them up close due to them being pulled) to be easily as good as a lot of what I have seen on a table in my 16 years of gaming (9 of which I was with GW so saw a LOT of different gaming armies).

I am not saying it is right or wrong, just different

 

[Tony Manero]

Originally posted by Avicenna
I think the other thing that is brought into the light here is the way people vote. The way Tony comes to his score of 1 is extremely critical as a 5 should be tabletop quality and the miniatures seem (although i\'ve not seen them up close due to them being pulled) to be easily as good as a lot of what I have seen on a table in my 16 years of gaming (9 of which I was with GW so saw a LOT of different gaming armies).

I am not saying it is right or wrong, just different

trust me... they were not tabletop.

i\'m honest please believe me

 

[Dammekkos2]

Originally posted by Dark Seraphim
Some can take harsh comments, some can\'t, but when a guy removes his pictures to avoid the shame... that is bad... and should taken as a sign really...

<pats Marmoset>

Yeah, can you imagine? He has no comments on any of his pics, then gets several emails along the lines of \"You have new comments on your pics!\"

He opens his gallery, only to see that someone has left several unneccessarily harsh comments.

Even going by the \'logic\' of the comments, surely the base score should be 10, with deductions taken from there, instead of starting all his pics on a score of 5, then deducting marks down to 1. :~(

 

[Swordwind]

Once again we\'re getting angry on behalf of someone else...

 

[tagron]

Originally posted by Swordwind
Once again we\'re getting angry on behalf of someone else...

Quite right, i guess i shouldnt have any ill feeling towards that chap, Hitler, what did he ever do to me??

 

[Dammekkos2]

Originally posted by Swordwind
Once again we\'re getting angry on behalf of someone else...

I dunno about everyone else, but I\'m not angry (having said that though, I\'m more likely to get annoyed when I see someone else getting badly treated)

Normally when someone is laying into me I write a response and then post it a few minutes later, sometimes editing.

 

[tooshy]

It\'s not about getting angry on behalf of someone else, its more about getting upset that comments (and harsh ones at that) can be made by someone (a GD winner too) on CMON, without justifying them.

I have always felt that CMON is somewhere that newbies and experienced model painters alike can swap advice, ideas and comments. We all have to start somewhere!

I don\'t know about anyone else, but I certainly still feel that slight tingle of aprehension when posting a new model, even though I\'ve got a lot of years experience under my belt. I\'m still keen to hear people\'s comments and know that if I was to receive some strong criticism without it being explained, then I would definitely be upset and also somewhat nervous about my next model.

 

[ipaintminis]

I do believe

we\'ve had this discussion before, concerning Indigo.

 

[desertdragon1964]

thick skin

Alrighty then now that I have had time to cool off and stop trying to save the world one victim at a time,it is nice to see so many people agree and understandable of those who dont lets try to be a little more patient with others concerning their painting skills or comments to such.Tony if you read this dont stop being yourself for anyone that is what your known for as well as your ability.Nice to hear from you again orchid noir (Wendi) hope you and yours are doing better.And Tony many of us would still like to see your work reposted on cmon.As far as Jardacko goes dont let this little thing stop you from becoming a better painter , for what I could see yours were at table top even if some others dont agree,people tend to judge on their level and forget not all are equal.DD P.S. Ipaintminis who is Indigo

 

[tzor]

You do really need a thick skin for CMON, but it\'s not just because of the posters.

Let\'s recap the CMON process for a moment. You take a mini. You take a mini that you have just painted; that you have viewed at 1:1 resolution in 360 degrees in a variety of lighting arrangements. You then blow it up, literally, to a magnification that will allow the normally 30 mm tall mini to appear on a computer screen at least three times it\'s normal size, captured in one or two views in lighting conditions that are never optimal and recorded by a camera that at best can be described as \"possessed.\" You then present it, like photographs of yourself when you were 5 years old, for all the world to see!

I have often had this same experience. I post my minis and I think they deserved a much higher score. Six months later or more I think they should get a far lower score than the average.

I once joked that I should call myself the \"Old Fart Mini Painter - I paint for Old Farts - The poorer your eyesight the better.\" But this applies even to good minis on CMON. I see a mini on CMON and I say \"That\'s really nice.\" I see something similiar in real life and I say \"Oh My God! I can\'t believe how fantastic that thing looks.\"

CMON is a cruel place. Not only do you have to paint well, photogaph well, but you have to have an eye for design to get the right angles to your minis. Some great minis simply cannot be photographed because of their three dimensional nature.

 

[airhead]

@Tzor, you got part of it.

I take a pic and somewhere there is a 5 year old that duplicates it in crayon and posts it here.

The other sites I belong to will all tell you how great a painter you are and what a good job you did. Here: I get \"Darklining too heavy\" \"Missed a spot\" \"How\'d you manage to get brown way up there?\" \"More shading\" \"More highlighting\" \"One more layer\". Now, all of those are good comments to get. Better than: \"That is bad\" \"Quit painting\" \"You suck\".


Tony\'s only crime was to critique and fail to back it up. He voted, and he explained his vote, but he did not offer correction - \"Your colors are blotchy, you might try....\"

 

[Ebonbuddha]

It seems the self righteous brigade rides again.

I support you Tony.
It is no surprise that I agree with Tony. He isn’t being arrogant or rude. He is simply giving his opinion. His criticism is just as valid as the “nice” comments and in my opinion much more valid at times. I actually prefer when people give comments like or similar to his and are sincere about it. He isn’t getting revenge because some one gave him bad critiques. If Tony didn\'t give good enough example\'s maybe some of you should have explained better too. Instead, people decide to attack Tony\'s comments (in the forums and the gallery) instead of explaining to the guy what should be done.

And the \"he could be a child\" comment doesn’t work either. What he said about the guy’s work is incredibly kind compared to how children talk about each other.

 

[laurence]

Self-righteous?

Originally posted by Ebonbuddha
It seems the self righteous brigade rides again.

I support you Tony.
It is no surprise that I agree with Tony. He isn’t being arrogant or rude. He is simply giving his opinion. His criticism is just as valid as the “nice?comments and in my opinion much more valid at times. I actually prefer when people give comments like or similar to his and are sincere about it. He isn’t getting revenge because some one gave him bad critiques. If Tony didn\'t give good enough example\'s maybe some of you should have explained better too. Instead, people decide to attack Tony\'s comments (in the forums and the gallery) instead of explaining to the guy what should be done.

And the he could be a child comment doesn’t work either. What he said about the guy’s work is incredibly kind compared to how children talk about each other.

Firstly, I\'ll take it as a compliment that I\'m part of the self-righteous brigade. Whatever that is??

Secondly, I\'m not attacking Tony. Further, I don\'t want this to be a \'let\'s gang up on Tony\' kinda vibe.

I was merely suggesting that Tony might construct his comments a little better so as not to make a d00d feel compelled to pull his/her photo gallery from CMoN.
Offering a little advice in a cool way might help the beginner.

@ Tony>>> I guess I got a little cut because this isn\'t the first time I\'ve read comments (that border on nasty) from you Tony. And when I saw you\'d left not one, not two, but three pretty harsh comments in the d00ds photo gallery I thought I\'d post this thread.

Man!! By all means voice your opinions loud and clear. Be yourself. Again, I\'m not telling you how to conduct yourself in public.

Maybe just think before you post.>>> Is what I\'m about to post going to have any good effect in the long run, if so good.>>>

Dragonsreach put it in a nutshell when he said that these are real human beings we are dealing with here.

Not just text and pixels.

Now can we just paint and get on with it?

Happy Days!

 

[Sand Rat]

You know, these things blow up here from time to time.

Kinda reminds me of the whole debate over BME - how many here remember him - gosh he was funny in the forums, and a really great guy and all that, and gave some wonderful criticism didnt he?

Actually BME did on occassion give useful criticism - when he wasnt to caught up in showing the rest of us how witty he was.

Now we\'ve got someone else who\'s run from a bunch of self rightious twats here at CMON - only one person had the \"intestinal fortitude\" to post commentary with his low scores - and there are all kind of reasons why we shouldn\'t pick on the poster of these comments - he\'s blunt, he\'s coming across the language barrier, he had a bad day - meh. If he\'s got the balls to be blunt, then he should be able to take the reaction to that bluntness - otherwise, he\'s as bad as the guys who cant take criticism and run. Oh, wait, he\'s pulled his minis because everyone here was \"against him\". Hmm.

Folks, I\'m a hack painter - never will win a GD, may never break a five here and dont really give a shyte about it - but I have recieved help from people here with comments, and from suggestions made in the chat room now that that has been enabled. And for all I know, I could be the \"freak\" that has left what tony feels are unhelpful comments - the monkey god knows I have stepped on a few toes around here and will continue to do so as long as I\'m active here - which will prolly be until banned or they are tossing dirt in my face which ever comes first. Thing is, most people who come here will never, ever ever win a GD - but they used to be able to come here for sound advice on how to improve their work. More and more frequently we have a select group who post their pictures and a larger herd that fawns over them because they have won one or more awards - making them the \"elite\" of the mini painting world. And sweet monkey jebus dont let one of the unwashed horde call one of the elite on their behavior - oh no, us unwashed ones just dont understand the artistic temperment, no sir and never will.

Someone mentioned art critics/instructors and how they can be harsh - you know why - cause art students let them be so. I know its hard to believe, but I have taken a couple art classes in the past and the best ones were from the teachers none of the art majors wanted to deal with - because they gave actual critiques of the work that a student could use to improve, not slashing \"this sucks to improve read this\" or \"wtf are you even doing in this class?\" But I got more out of a teacher who said \"The perspective is off here - and if you do this, then it will be right\" than I ever got out of \"WRONG - DO IT AGAIN\"

 

[Ebonbuddha]

If you don\'t know what something is, don\'t take it as a compliment to be apart of it.

Did I say your name in my post? Did I quote you and make my comments? DId I say you attacked Tony?

\"Maybe just think before you post.>>>\" lol

Originally posted by laurence
Firstly, I\'ll take it as a compliment that I\'m part of the self-righteous brigade. Whatever that is??

 

[Tony Manero]

thanks mate, how i said to dark seraphim in MSN i didn\'t mean to be rude, just forgot good manners (my fault, true) anyway no offence for me and i hope also for the painter and his lawyer in defence

 

[laurence]

Originally posted by steelcult
You know, these things blow up here from time to time.

Kinda reminds me of the whole debate over BME - how many here remember him - gosh he was funny in the forums, and a really great guy and all that, and gave some wonderful criticism didnt he?

Actually BME did on occassion give useful criticism - when he wasnt to caught up in showing the rest of us how witty he was.

Now we\'ve got someone else who\'s run from a bunch of self rightious twats here at CMON - only one person had the \"intestinal fortitude\" to post commentary with his low scores - and there are all kind of reasons why we shouldn\'t pick on the poster of these comments - he\'s blunt, he\'s coming across the language barrier, he had a bad day - meh. If he\'s got the balls to be blunt, then he should be able to take the reaction to that bluntness - otherwise, he\'s as bad as the guys who cant take criticism and run. Oh, wait, he\'s pulled his minis because everyone here was \"against him\". Hmm.

Folks, I\'m a hack painter - never will win a GD, may never break a five here and dont really give a shyte about it - but I have recieved help from people here with comments, and from suggestions made in the chat room now that that has been enabled. And for all I know, I could be the \"freak\" that has left what tony feels are unhelpful comments - the monkey god knows I have stepped on a few toes around here and will continue to do so as long as I\'m active here - which will prolly be until banned or they are tossing dirt in my face which ever comes first. Thing is, most people who come here will never, ever ever win a GD - but they used to be able to come here for sound advice on how to improve their work. More and more frequently we have a select group who post their pictures and a larger herd that fawns over them because they have won one or more awards - making them the \"elite\" of the mini painting world. And sweet monkey jebus dont let one of the unwashed horde call one of the elite on their behavior - oh no, us unwashed ones just dont understand the artistic temperment, no sir and never will.

Someone mentioned art critics/instructors and how they can be harsh - you know why - cause art students let them be so. I know its hard to believe, but I have taken a couple art classes in the past and the best ones were from the teachers none of the art majors wanted to deal with - because they gave actual critiques of the work that a student could use to improve, not slashing \"this sucks to improve read this\" or \"wtf are you even doing in this class?\" But I got more out of a teacher who said \"The perspective is off here - and if you do this, then it will be right\" than I ever got out of \"WRONG - DO IT AGAIN\"

@ Steelcult >>> Self-righteous twats?? Thanks for sharing your philosophies with us mate. I\'ll be sure to pin \'em up on the fridge.

@ Ebbonbuddha>>> Would you care to give me a description as to what a self-righteous brigade is? I\'m interested to know what I\'ve got myself in to.

If I wanted to think before I posted in a general discussion forum I\'d join the university rocket science club forum.

 

[Sand Rat]

Yup. And if read properly, one realizes the author is reffering to people who have caused newbs to pull their posts by harsh criticism, not to others who find their day filled with ire over it.

 

[Infidel Castro]

Originally posted by Ebonbuddha
It seems the self righteous brigade rides again.

lol lol lol

Excellent one-liner!

CMON is taken from that mad idea of posting a picture of yourself for a ranking. It\'s a simple premise and one which doesn\'t need any humanitarian bent slapped on it. You vote according to what you think and write a comment if you see fit. Never lose sight of the fact that the purpose of this site is simply to vote on images of miniatures. There\'s no morality to it - such morality goes out the window in some respects once you begin the process of comparisons. It\'s human to go wow, that\'s an amazing thing and even more human to then go oooh, that\'s really bad!. When you then have a site like ours that allows you to express those thoughts, that\'s exactly what you\'ll get.

We are here to give our votes and judgements on miniatures, not to judge the morality of the people who are voting.

We\'re all guilty of confusing what this website actually stands for. All the accoutrements that come with the site, like articles, forums, etc., are secondary to the idea of voting and commenting. Bringing it back to the idea of posting pics of yourself on the original website that spawned the idea for CMON, imagine if you were, for whatever reason, bloody ugly. I\'m not going to beat about the bush here. If someone voted you one out of ten and left a comment like Sheesh fella, you really are fecking ugly! would you expect a critique on how to improve your looks? Maybe someone could suggest a good surgeon. Maybe health regimes to improve your features? Bollocks you will. The justification is plain and simple within the framework of voting 1-10. As soon as you step into that voting process you are bound by the rules of it. It\'s not about morality unless you choose to make it so, and then it flies in the face of rating things superficially in the first place.

Tony effectively did nothing wrong. I might say he\'s a little up himself, but then I\'m sure we can all say the same about each other.

The forums seem to be a moral organ for CMON, but that\'s not to say it\'s important to 99% of the users and visitors here who come to vote and vote alone. Tony gave some advice according to his own understanding, so he shouldn\'t get singled out just for that.

 

[vikinglodge]

my 2cents

Here is my 2 cents

You could pick any picture apart on this site and concentrate on what is wrong, it isnt helpfull to do it that way no matter how justified you belive it is.

Personally if it is painted it can be used for table top battle.
Many people here are young and I think consideration for how others might feal about comments is something that could make it better for everyone here.

just my thoughts :bouncy: