U.K. GOLDEN DEMON CATERGORIES ,,,BIG CHANGES ?

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jahminis

New member
as i have said before, i firmly feel that games day is a marketin\' device...gw wants people to buy the sculpt that won the sword, not moan that they can\'t get one...
havin\' a standard set of rules for all countries is not such a bad idea...especially since there are plenty of other high profile contests that are open to all companies and minis...gencon, salute, and many others...
the fact that there is still an open category, leaves everyone the ability to enter whatever they want...o.k., open can\'t win a sword, but a gold is almost as good...

cheers
jah
 
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Matt Cexwish

Member
Banning Full Sculpts is really a bad decision... Albert said it, why not concentrate on a Paintjob of a Full Scratch Mini if you set the rule that only the Paintjob is considered...?...

I think it has to do with the IP Policy of GW... They don´t want things to win that don´t look GW... and that is fine... so they want people not to bring them at all (so maybe nobody can complain, make pics of good, non GW Minis, etc. ... just to make sure...)...

I see the point but I don´t agree on it from an artists view... :D...
 
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Cleezy

New member
I agree with many of the points being said here.

I personally think that sculpts shouldn\'t be banned (though the extra categoy for scratchbuilds sounds good) i feel that the sculpts should tie in with the GW realms and that, after all it is the showcase of everything GW.

But banning scratchbuilds would be silly as many people cant find a particular model they want for their entry and the like and then have to look for alternatives.

And despite the model being scratchbuilt it should still be judged on the level of its painting standard.

In a way its simplistic yet they so far haven\'t managed to get it right.
 
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demonherald

New member
Well I\'m glad I ain\'t started yet...that way I can wait for the night before and make sure there are no changes then whip up my slayer sword winner high on black coffee.....lol

I am in the camp of sculpts should be allowed... at the end of the day there is the cover all rule of sticking within the GW IP that can prevent non GW looking minis winning.... That said from GW\'s point of view I guess having people slag off them and the competition when a scratchbuild doesn\'t win means it would be easier to just say don\'t allow them.. I don\'t think it harms the comp though as much a design comp as it is it is still about minis.. yeah it\'s a painting comp but also a modelling comp and part of the evolution of most painters and modellers leads them to wanting to create their own sculpts.... plus banning them would lose the appeal of the excellent work by top artsts such as Mr Bay , mr Waeselynck , mr Carrasco et al..not to mention the eavy metal guys work in the open....putting them in their own category is a good thing and I like GP\'s idea of an unpainted sculpt category but that will probably never happen...

I think the one category that has always excited me most has been large scale ..it\'s not a scale I have worked in until recently but I\'ve always enjoyed seeing what people have come up with for scratches ...
anyway I guess we will see.. and I hope it is the changes that Adie has plugged for if for nothing else other than it means he\'ll be going....:beer:
 
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demonherald

New member
Originally posted by vincenti
Then why oh why is there the warning on the web site :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad::mad::flame:

GOD bless .....................VINCENTI
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If I remember rightly it did have that warning last year as a cover for if they do change from the previous years ..but the buggers have made it red this time so who knows.....
 
Y

Yramrag

New member
OZ GD is banning all \"artifacts\" from entry. which is a welcome relief from me. I am sick of seeing a \"real sized las gun\" as an entry.
I partially agree with the banning of full sculpts. I think if you make another category, then that would be fine, but the way it is at the moment with full sculpts going in, then it stops being a painting contest and becomes who can sculpt the best. My reason for this is that custom sculpts generally look so much better than GW sculpts, that they naturally attract more attention and will \"shine\" more. But then again where is the line between a conversion and a sculpt? And how do you prove it? My dad is the Australian champion for Remote Controlled airplanes and he has to supply documentation and photos of his plane when he competes at World Champs.
is this the way it should go? You have to provide WIP shots to show that no more than 50% has been sculpted?
 
V

vincenti

Member
THE TRUTH !

The bottom line is simply this ,Games Day is the only Show/Comp run by a company with a vested interest in the winners,(who appear in their company magazine !)
This is not a conspiracy theory its a fact.

Its a company that is struggling.Fact.

As a result people with shareholders ,rather than ARTISTS on their minds are calling the shots !

Another fact...... In the last 6 months I have sent the company a detailled beakdown of how we do things in the Military Modelling world.This is the 2nd \"long\" letter I have sent them since entering the G.D.comps (5 years ).
I explained the OPEN system thoroughly.

I did this at the request of a G.W. man... Fact.

Now you can appreciate why I am a \"little\" frustrated.
And why do I not want to support the show any more ????
Simple again......the current system does not encourage UNBRIDDLED ARTISTIC CREATIVITY.The Military modelling shows DO !!!!
This year the World Expo in
GIRONA has a massive Sci/FI fantasy section, and I should Know, I am one of the judges !

In Girona its all cut into 2 to start with,
PAINTERS on their own with there own awards,
CONVERTERS / SCRATCHBUILDERS on their own.

I will wait to see whats in black & white ,with my own eyes, before I make a final descision:eek:.
Its actually a real shame ,G.W. has a chance to encourage a whole new generation of young MINI artists,which if they really went for it, would actually profit the company .

Another sad fact is ,I really feel that we as a CMON/ BRIT community are really comming together, and if I leave now I cant be a part of that continuing experience.
So I sit and wait, not really sure what to do.

Why am I so passionate about it all ?.......
simlpe again. I am 47 years old , in the small & ultimately insignificant world of minis I am at the \" top \" of my game. I got here thru practise, a basic gift for Art and A LOT of input,& encouragement from people who took the time to show me tips,techniques and skills on how to imrove.
That is my personal goal now, to pass the batton on to the next generation of youngsters.Youngsters who if given the right input and encouragement can take it to an even higher level.
Is G.W. encouraging that ?

So I sit and wait.

GOD bless (you ALL) .................... Adie


```````````````````````````````````````````````A:~:)~(???
 
Talonicus

Talonicus

New member
I agree with everything you have to say Adie.

The problem is that GDUK is the premiere event for fantasy/sci fi in this country.

I know Euro has a fantasy section now, and I know that Salute is getting bigger, but GD still attracts many of the best ( like yourself ) and consequently it means more to win here.

I know with support the other events will gain prominence, but until then GD will keep dragging me back.

I sincerely hope you do attend GD as its always a pleasure to meet you, although the social side of this event is really lacking. :flame:

Or a related point are you attending the Platoon Brittanica event that has been organised? It would be brilliant to see some of your stuff up close and get time to have a proper chat etc.

Nigel
 
green stuff

green stuff

Active member
Message original : Talonicus
although the social side of this event is really lacking.
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Which brings me to the following question : who\'s up for a Saturday night diner in Birmingham? It\'s commonly done for other GDs around the world and a great occasion to see some entries up close.
 
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donga666

Guest
Originally posted by generulpoleaxe
i noticed that they have size restrictions now lol
probably don\'t want to risk someone getting a hernia from lifting dongas entry!
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They always did, I just maxed out in ALL directions 30cmx30cmx30cm. Well I went 5mm over the height, but no-one had a ruler :D

This years is much smaller :) (well a bit...)

I like seeing sculpts, they are always a sight to behold.
 
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Cleezy

New member
@Greenstuff i think that would be a cool idea but what if people arent able to get down the saturday night?the sunday after GD may be easier for some. Still its a good idea for the socialising scene.

And i agree with Adrian, the judging should be people who are in the know about the painting/modelling side (maybe eavy metal or past winners should judge) The entries shouldnt be based on what will look best sales wise also.

I feel all aspects should be encouraged as adrian said for people to carry on the mini art. Maybe workshops and that on the day to help peoples techniques.

I mean when i was in southport GW i was buying my high elf army and i was talking about painting them they said i should drybrush, and when i mentioned some further techniques (nothing amazing) they seemed a little lost.

To many people painting and modeling means a lot more than the actual gaming, others not but GW should cater to both
 
darklord

darklord

New member
the problem is as has been mentioned earlier that gw is run for profit and verything they do is about maximising profit and brand awareness (thats not to say staff arent passionate about the hobby) and they are always looking to do that and it shows in games day. I think they are beginning to realise the growth that is occuring in the painting side of it but they will make more money through selling to the gaming side of it

i think a seperate catagory for sculpts would be a great idea but this is GW and the bigger the ship the bigger the turning circle
 
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Kiour gr

New member
Originally posted by generulpoleaxe
i agree with neil and albert

the sculpts should have a seperate category, and i think they should be eligable for the sword.

i understand why GW has made them ineligable, a lot of people use GD to advertise their own miniature line.
by making sculpts ineligable for the sword a lot of people won\'t won\'t bother.

it would be nice to see unpainted sculpts with GW offering to buy the winning sculpts and get them cast for production.

at the ned of the day, while GD remains a first past the post comp sculpters will always have a huge advantage due to the wow factor involved.
by moving sculpts to a seperate category this starts to bring the level playing field back into view.

i personaly think it should be judged using the open system, but that\'s another debate :D
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i think the idea of gw buing sculpt is super smart.

It is though worrying that at the French Golden deamon most winners were scratch build. Has it come down to: \"you dont scrach built you dont win\" in a competition made from a minature manifacturer?
 
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sg2009

Guest
@ cleezy i know what you mean about gw staff, there used to be 4 staff members in my local gw that were awsome painters and taught me how to paint they never told me to drybrush, and they all left gw because they hate the fact that gw is getting more about making money than the actual hobby.

Now all i get is drybrush everything :cussing:
 
Avelorn

Avelorn

Sven Jonsson
The year before that a vanilla Ghazhkull won the Open in UK. Last spain GD Slayer Sword was won by an unconverted Boromir... All winners in the lotr category are generally unconverted etc. etc.

Causality chain:

Most people convert their minis when entering them to the deamons --> Converted miniatures win

The top painters are often excellent scratchbuilders as well--> They enter scratchbuilt pieces --> Scratchbuilt pieces win.

Even if the sculptwork counts time and time again it is proven that miniatures straight from the blister can win even the Slayer Sword. Oh and with a little paint on as well :)
 
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Malchiar

New member
im pretty sure that as long as you include some GW parts in the model it doesn\'t count as scratchbuilt.
If this is infact true then amazing sculptor/painters can (thankfully) still win a sword instead of being relegated for their talent.

I think that if sculpts were to be put into their own category,
with no painting allowed, then we would not see them at their full potential

I mean lets be honest, would you rather look at a beautifully painted, unique model
which allows the artist to show a glimmering facet of creativity,
or look at a unique unpainted model that you cannot see many of the details of,
is boringly uneyecatching simply because of its unpainted state?

and finally, aren\'t sculpts designed to be painted?
if not, why the hell do we spend so much time attempting to turn them into works of art instead of tin soldiers
 
Dragonsreach

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Originally posted by Cleezy
And i agree with Adrian, the judging should be people who are in the know about the painting/modelling side (maybe eavy metal or past winners should judge) The entries shouldnt be based on what will look best sales wise also.
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As has been said many times before GW is a Business, run for the profit of it\'s shareholders not the benefit of it\'s customers.

And Yes I agree that the judging of the Golden Deamon competition should be left to people who have an understand of the painting aspect of the hobby. However as has been demonstrated the people who flag the mini\'s for \"First cut\" are in the main just \"Ordinary Staffers\".

We\'ve argued to death the need for changes within GW\'s \"Flagship\" competition, but as someone who has had the priviledge of judging comps, until the \"Judges\" get the option to inspect every figure equally we\'ll never see a truely open playing field.
And by that I also include the ability do ensure that the allegations made about previous years partiality and \"pre-inspection\" of entries can be unequivocally ruled out.
 
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