War: pros and cons
- Thread starter vincegamer
- Start date
philologus
Subgenius
I was waiting for this too. Here\'s a Link with a report on the status of the DOD\'s recruiting before and after the current war. It shows that recruits are better educated, better financed and more representative of the population than ever before. \"middle-class\" families are over-represented. Ethnic populations are at very near the same distribution as the US population. While African Americans are only slightly more overrepresented than whites, their representation has gone slowly down. It appears that a lot of Americans want to serve in the military for reasons NOT related to \"they had no other choice\" This report agrees well with observations I made during my personal period of service in the US Army.
EDIT: While I\'m on the subject my college education has provided far less opportunities than my military experience has. I have yet to use anything I learned in college at work.
vikinglodge
New member
Profetering
HI just had to come in for a quick post, I am intrested in history and war do have a huge place in it unfortunatly.
Its clear as glass why Iraq was important, The decision to invade iraq was made by special intrest before Bush got \"elected\" and before 9/11.
So I am not for this war, War Makes people already filthy rich even more filthy rich, while other people die.
I have a book suggestion Rule by Secrecy by Jim Mars That explains why war happens and who likes and wants war surely not the ones who fight in it or gets caught in the middle. Money and power is always at the end of it. Thats my 2 cents
HI just had to come in for a quick post, I am intrested in history and war do have a huge place in it unfortunatly.
Its clear as glass why Iraq was important, The decision to invade iraq was made by special intrest before Bush got \"elected\" and before 9/11.
So I am not for this war, War Makes people already filthy rich even more filthy rich, while other people die.
I have a book suggestion Rule by Secrecy by Jim Mars That explains why war happens and who likes and wants war surely not the ones who fight in it or gets caught in the middle. Money and power is always at the end of it. Thats my 2 cents
Don\'t you mean \"Rule by Secrecy: The Hidden History That Connects the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons, and the Great Pyramids\" by Jim Marrs?lol
Isn\'t he the guy who also wrote \"Alien Agenda: Investigating the Extraterrestrial Presence Among Us\", and \"Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy\"?
He\'s also one of the guys who believes the US Government blew up the World Trade Center.lol
Honestly, I\'d stick to \"The Enquirer\".
But, I do have a book, that does prove coclusively that we attacked Iraq due to Saddam not liking Green eggs and Ham.
It\'s written by a Dr. Seuss. His credentials are just as good, if not better.lol
Better late then never...
Sorry I\'m late; I know you\'ve all been on the edge of your seats waiting for MY opinion.
First off, I\'m totally against war, which I\'m pretty sure every sane person on here is. I think what we are REALLY discussing here is if it is NECESSARY? In most cases I feel it is, as it was in WWII. Now we get into a fuzzy grey area… is it justified?
Do we need to stay in Iraq NOW that we’ve turned the whole place upside down? Of course we do; we would be morally bankrupt to walk out on them now. Should we ever have gone in? Aye… there’s the rub.
Do I feel the people of Iraq, and the whole Middle East for that matter, will be better off in the long run? Absolutely! However, we are imposing OUR belief system on a foreign culture. We don’t have a king… so why not take down every country with one? Communism isn’t what WE are about, so let’s take on Korea and all the others that aren’t doing it ‘right’. Do you see my point? Of course bringing civilization to the unwashed masses of the world is a good thing… do any of you Americans remember the commercial with the crying Indian standing on the side of the littered highway?
Someone mentioned earlier the fact about history being written by the winners, and it is a VERY good and valid point. As long as we always win we are always going to be the good guys. Do you think Hitler thought he was the bad guy? Had Germany won the history books would be telling a way different story now, about how the wonderful Furor destroyed the inhuman Jews and crushed the evil that is communism. How about Attila the Hun? Genghis Khan? What of Alexander? He brought the wonderful Hellenistic culture to so many… weather they wanted it or not.
Before all of our forum military members start attacking me, let me just say I’m not against what we are doing… just the reasons we are doing it. Telling us you are going in to look for WMD’s, and then changing the reasons to humanitarian ones mid-stream is just insulting to my, nay, THE WORLD’S Intelligence.
EvilDave is at least honest about it. We pick our battles. Why? Because why should we do anything that doesn’t benefit us in some way? Harsh, but accurate.
The atom Bomb thing I covered in the 11/11 thread, and I won’t rehash it here. Suffice it to say that the bomb is a necessary evil, without the threat of which we and the Soviets would have turned on each other like animals, using conventional weapons to cause far more destruction in the long haul. Fear is a good thing; it keeps us safe.
In summation, I am neither pro nor con. I wouldn’t say I’m a fence sitter either, more a normal human being that is torn between right and wrong, sacrificing so many now to build a better future. The scary thing is, who’s version of the future are we heading toward?
Our Constitution grants the Gov’t the right to keep an army for the common Defense. To say we are ATTACKING someone before they attack us is called a pre-emptive strike. Justifiable under law, but that’s just a matter of semantics. To say the Taliban attacked us first, and therefore opened up the door for attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq is one thing, but I’m very interested to see how we are going to explain going into N.Korea; until then I’m reserving judgement.
The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the leader.
Proverbs 22: 7
Sorry I\'m late; I know you\'ve all been on the edge of your seats waiting for MY opinion.
First off, I\'m totally against war, which I\'m pretty sure every sane person on here is. I think what we are REALLY discussing here is if it is NECESSARY? In most cases I feel it is, as it was in WWII. Now we get into a fuzzy grey area… is it justified?
Do we need to stay in Iraq NOW that we’ve turned the whole place upside down? Of course we do; we would be morally bankrupt to walk out on them now. Should we ever have gone in? Aye… there’s the rub.
Do I feel the people of Iraq, and the whole Middle East for that matter, will be better off in the long run? Absolutely! However, we are imposing OUR belief system on a foreign culture. We don’t have a king… so why not take down every country with one? Communism isn’t what WE are about, so let’s take on Korea and all the others that aren’t doing it ‘right’. Do you see my point? Of course bringing civilization to the unwashed masses of the world is a good thing… do any of you Americans remember the commercial with the crying Indian standing on the side of the littered highway?
Someone mentioned earlier the fact about history being written by the winners, and it is a VERY good and valid point. As long as we always win we are always going to be the good guys. Do you think Hitler thought he was the bad guy? Had Germany won the history books would be telling a way different story now, about how the wonderful Furor destroyed the inhuman Jews and crushed the evil that is communism. How about Attila the Hun? Genghis Khan? What of Alexander? He brought the wonderful Hellenistic culture to so many… weather they wanted it or not.
Before all of our forum military members start attacking me, let me just say I’m not against what we are doing… just the reasons we are doing it. Telling us you are going in to look for WMD’s, and then changing the reasons to humanitarian ones mid-stream is just insulting to my, nay, THE WORLD’S Intelligence.
EvilDave is at least honest about it. We pick our battles. Why? Because why should we do anything that doesn’t benefit us in some way? Harsh, but accurate.
The atom Bomb thing I covered in the 11/11 thread, and I won’t rehash it here. Suffice it to say that the bomb is a necessary evil, without the threat of which we and the Soviets would have turned on each other like animals, using conventional weapons to cause far more destruction in the long haul. Fear is a good thing; it keeps us safe.
In summation, I am neither pro nor con. I wouldn’t say I’m a fence sitter either, more a normal human being that is torn between right and wrong, sacrificing so many now to build a better future. The scary thing is, who’s version of the future are we heading toward?
Our Constitution grants the Gov’t the right to keep an army for the common Defense. To say we are ATTACKING someone before they attack us is called a pre-emptive strike. Justifiable under law, but that’s just a matter of semantics. To say the Taliban attacked us first, and therefore opened up the door for attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq is one thing, but I’m very interested to see how we are going to explain going into N.Korea; until then I’m reserving judgement.
The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the leader.
Proverbs 22: 7
philologus
Subgenius
Agreed, other questions I like to ask my local conspiracy theorists:
1. If it\'s such a big secret how did YOU gain access to it? (inevitably this is answered with \"the internet\")
2. You really expect me to believe that human beings are organized enough to create secret cabals that last even 1 lifetime? Much less century-spanning plans for world domination? One of the most provable assertions about humans is that they would likely cut their own mother for an extra buck; will collude with each other across the generations?
That is very true...
Thinking back to the Falklands, most of my colleagues at the time had recently left the military and almost all of them were busting their guts to get back in. They would have left their jobs and families just to get a chance to put their training into action.
Thinking back to the Falklands, most of my colleagues at the time had recently left the military and almost all of them were busting their guts to get back in. They would have left their jobs and families just to get a chance to put their training into action.
vincegamer
Active member
Yeah, even Deep Throat came forward. He figured he was dying soon and wanted to get some cash to leave his kids.
philologus
Subgenius
I can attest to this too. I have 2 friends who got out with me and went back in for Afghanistan/Iraq.
That is just so bizarre to me; I hear stories of how happy the guys coming home are. I\'ve also seen a news piece about the first unit that had to go back AFTER they where home awhile, and they were none too happy about it. Is it some sort of adrenalin rush addiction? ???
For you conspiracy theory types (wasn\'t Mel Gibson great in that movie?), I found THIS SITE.
The information seams VERY thorough and plausible, but he lost me at this statement -
It is no secret that many of these kingpin families are heavily involved in satanic occult practices... <snip>
I just can\'t picture people like Ted Turner wearing a hooded cloak in some dungeon setting chanting backwards Latin... but hey, you never know.
I was just wondering what Philologus, and other Christian-yet-anti-conspiracy types think of that guy\'s message. There is a whole lot in there that makes sense, but then he muddles it up with the whole secret-cabal thing.
One thing I did walk away from there with -
Globalism is a doctrine of Communism, not Capitalist Democracy. The fact that our nation, along with the UN, is steering the world in that direction is kind of scary. How far from true Democracy have we fallen?
For you conspiracy theory types (wasn\'t Mel Gibson great in that movie?), I found THIS SITE.
The information seams VERY thorough and plausible, but he lost me at this statement -
It is no secret that many of these kingpin families are heavily involved in satanic occult practices... <snip>
I just can\'t picture people like Ted Turner wearing a hooded cloak in some dungeon setting chanting backwards Latin... but hey, you never know.
I was just wondering what Philologus, and other Christian-yet-anti-conspiracy types think of that guy\'s message. There is a whole lot in there that makes sense, but then he muddles it up with the whole secret-cabal thing.
One thing I did walk away from there with -
Globalism is a doctrine of Communism, not Capitalist Democracy. The fact that our nation, along with the UN, is steering the world in that direction is kind of scary. How far from true Democracy have we fallen?
vincegamer
Active member
I dunno.
I didn\'t get that far.
I was just skimming and there was so much off I couldn\'t go on.
First, he claims it\'s against the Constitution for the US to own a central bank. Well here\'s news to you. The US once did own a bank, and while it was challenged in the court, a decision was never rendered. The Congress abolished it - by letting the law that established it expire without renewal.
Then I just had to laugh at \"Caeser\'s Gaelic Wars\".
Caeser (Julius presumably) never went to the the Isles of Ireland, Man or to Scottland and may not even have known of their existence.
I didn\'t get that far.
I was just skimming and there was so much off I couldn\'t go on.
First, he claims it\'s against the Constitution for the US to own a central bank. Well here\'s news to you. The US once did own a bank, and while it was challenged in the court, a decision was never rendered. The Congress abolished it - by letting the law that established it expire without renewal.
Then I just had to laugh at \"Caeser\'s Gaelic Wars\".
Caeser (Julius presumably) never went to the the Isles of Ireland, Man or to Scottland and may not even have known of their existence.
\'Ceasar\' is a title, not a name Vince, and is related to other titles such as Tzar, Shah, Kaiser, etc...
So he could have meant Caligula, who did march on the British Isles, only to come to the coast of France and decide to collect seashells instead.
lol
EDIT: I didn\'t get that far either Vince, as I stated above. I read only the first section before he lost me with that Satanic crap.
So he could have meant Caligula, who did march on the British Isles, only to come to the coast of France and decide to collect seashells instead.
lol
EDIT: I didn\'t get that far either Vince, as I stated above. I read only the first section before he lost me with that Satanic crap.
vincegamer
Active member
It\'s kind of fun though.
Another one is his claim that the Bible is a true history because more copies of it have been made than of any other book.
That logic would lead us to believe that Communism is the best form of government because Chairman Mao\'s Little Red Book is the second most printed book of all time, but of course he explains that Communism is evil.
[edit] it\'s just so darn funny!
He goes on and on about how there\'s no phrase \"separation of church and state\" in the Constitution. But he never mentions the two clauses regarding religion that ARE in the Constitution.
Another one is his claim that the Bible is a true history because more copies of it have been made than of any other book.
That logic would lead us to believe that Communism is the best form of government because Chairman Mao\'s Little Red Book is the second most printed book of all time, but of course he explains that Communism is evil.
[edit] it\'s just so darn funny!
He goes on and on about how there\'s no phrase \"separation of church and state\" in the Constitution. But he never mentions the two clauses regarding religion that ARE in the Constitution.
No Such Agency
New member
You kill a President because he has power to rival your conspiracy. You don\'t kill an author, because doing so would only draw attention to his writings about your secret activities. The fact that these guys are NOT murdered is entirely consistent with there being a massive conspiray of the type they claim exists.
philologus
Subgenius
Guys with that much power can make it look like an accident. e.g. \"Author dies when lightning strikes tin-foil hat\"
philologus
Subgenius
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Christ\'s words here illustrate a widely-held belief by Christians that the enemy\'s M.O. is lulling a person into the belief that they have nothing to worry about regarding the disposition of their souls. His best weapon is an individual\'s belief that he (Satan) doesn\'t exist.
If you want someone\'s soul you don\'t show up with horns and a pitchfork asking them to sign on the line.
2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
That\'s how you do it. This guy\'s fear of satanic rituals illustrates a misunderstanding of central doctrines in the Bible.
The Devil himself can quote the Bible to his own ends
Sadly, this statement has often been applied to me by my fellow Christians.
About the conspiracy thing - NSA is correct, if everyone who followed a certain theory just \'disappeared\', that would lend validity to their arguments. The generally excepted theory today is that the US \'black Ops\' has realized that by assasinating someone you turn them into a Martyr, and give credence to their cause. Like Jesus, these people became far more powerful in death, through their message.
Today the CIA, or whoever else you feel like blaming, would rather discredit leaders who oppose them. Supposedly, thats why so many ministers were getting in trouble in the late 80\'s and early 90\'s; they were set up.
This also works right into the whole conspiracy theory thing. The media, which is controlled by the Gov\'t, portrays these people as kooks. Since most of the theories are kooky to begin with, the \'authentic\' theories are brushed aside with the rest.
Hell, there\'s even a theory that the Gov\'t creates most of the theories just to throw us off. lol
I believe EVERY story begins with some grain of truth, but how far the facts have been stretched to fit into someone\'s agenda is another thing. Everything from UFO\'s to bigfoot, it\'s all gotten so much bull$hit attached to it that any truth has been lost.
EDIT: Phil responded to NSA before I could post this. Must learn to type faster. Thank You Phil for your well thought out and reasonable response. So, do you feel the guy is \'mostly\' correct but mis-guided? Also, if too many accidents happen to conspiracy theorists, then that in itself becomes a conspiracy. Much attention has been brought out about the number of people involved in the JFK assasination and how they met their ends soon after the incident. Reporters, police, doctors, etc... I believe in coincidences, but these people number in the hundreds. Not saying it\'s true or not, but it does make you think.
