Where do we draw the line?
- Thread starter rocketandroll
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Infidel Castro
New member
Hypothetical my arse! Get a life! 
By the way, did I not see Klute appear in this thread? God, it\'s been ages
By the way, did I not see Klute appear in this thread? God, it\'s been ages
rocketandroll
New member
Originally posted by reverend
Hypothetical my arse! Get a life!
Thanks for the heartfelt and well considered response there.
The issue here is not winning and loosing, as much as the importance of rules in competitions.... and whether the organisers do or don\'t have to follow them.
If fairness is not a subject that interests you, not a problem... likewise, if you don\'t enter competitions because that\'s not your thing... also not a problem... I just wanted to see what the mini-painting community as a whole felt about the system and, whether they\'ve been on either side of the fence in dubious judging decisions... whether they feel things need to be looked at a little closer or competitions run in a stricter and more even handed way.
I\'d like to think, given what has been said by others about how common these kind of things appear to be... I deserve a little more than \'get a life\'.
IMHO
Ben
Infidel Castro
New member
Confucius say \"he who write \'IMHO\' is far from humble in his opinion.\"
First of all, your use of \'hypothetical\' is utter tripe. Secondly, you never won. Thirdly, I believe in fairness (I can discuss the matter with you in depth if you want). Fourthly, my response was EXTREMELY heartfelt and considered. I just refused to mince my words. Fifthly, get that life I mentioned. Some persective too. Sheesh...
First of all, your use of \'hypothetical\' is utter tripe. Secondly, you never won. Thirdly, I believe in fairness (I can discuss the matter with you in depth if you want). Fourthly, my response was EXTREMELY heartfelt and considered. I just refused to mince my words. Fifthly, get that life I mentioned. Some persective too. Sheesh...
Ebonbuddha
Active member
Ahhhhhh...that’s the Rev I know and love.
It sucks if this happened to you. If I were you, I would just enter again. This time let the win be your revenge.
Hmmm…Teenage daughters picking the winners,eh? If only I looked like Justin Timberlake. I would have a house full of Slayer Swords. lol
It sucks if this happened to you. If I were you, I would just enter again. This time let the win be your revenge.
Hmmm…Teenage daughters picking the winners,eh? If only I looked like Justin Timberlake. I would have a house full of Slayer Swords. lol
Infidel Castro
New member
And in response, maybe you should stick your head back up your arse
Infidel Castro
New member
There is nothing in this world that annoys me more than a bad loser. Corinthian Spirit, as I have said before, is the correct competitive mentality. If you can\'t accept losing, don\'t play the game. Whether or not I paint any more is irrelevant. Whilst not the greatest painter in the world I had enough dedication to paint for a living over the course of one whole year. However, I\'m quick enough to realise that the job I do these days is a proper job in that it helps people. Perspective. Painting miniatures for a year was fun, but it is not satisfying in the same sense as proper work is satisfying. What I\'m trying to say is that painting is not that important to so many people that they would whinge behind a thinly veiled \'made up\' diatribe that can be summed up with \"I lost - I can\'t take it\" as its core message. If miniature painting is such a huge issue in his life, fair play to him. Still doesn\'t stop him from being a very poor loser, does it? ???
Infidel Castro
New member
Not at all - why should we dislike you as a person over something so trivial? I bet you\'re a sound bloke. Come to Cardiff and I\'ll buy you a pint.
I draw the line at: can\'t bear to lose, don\'t bother playing.
rocketandroll
New member
Jeez, I love the warmth and eloquence of these forums... makes you happy to be among such caring people
@Rev: I\'ve dropped you a PM, as I said in there, I did realise this subject may upset a few people but I did not set out here to really get anyone\'s back up or make enemies. I really hope if I can explain privately the circumstances that led to me posting on this subject, you\'ll understand a little better why I feel so upset about it.
Thanks again to everyone who\'se posted on this gargantuan thread... and to whoever it was who asked... yes, I\'ll be attending Salute this year for the first time, and hopefully a couple more GD\'s as well... If nothing else good comes of this, it will lower my expectations and make me go into every competition a lot more open minded than I did in the past.
The harder won the prize, the sweeter it will taste.
All the best
Ben
@Rev: I\'ve dropped you a PM, as I said in there, I did realise this subject may upset a few people but I did not set out here to really get anyone\'s back up or make enemies. I really hope if I can explain privately the circumstances that led to me posting on this subject, you\'ll understand a little better why I feel so upset about it.
Thanks again to everyone who\'se posted on this gargantuan thread... and to whoever it was who asked... yes, I\'ll be attending Salute this year for the first time, and hopefully a couple more GD\'s as well... If nothing else good comes of this, it will lower my expectations and make me go into every competition a lot more open minded than I did in the past.
The harder won the prize, the sweeter it will taste.
All the best
Ben
rocketandroll
New member
Ok, hopefully I\'m allowed to at least defend myself against this sort of thing...
I strongly object to being called a bad looser. Please feel free to go back and check and see if I\'ve posted any kind of comments questioning judging standards or fairness after any of the other competitions I\'ve entered over the past few years, most of which I have not won anything in.
The reason for that, and I\'m happy to explain it again, is that this is not about being beaten by a better model... as I said, I know where I sit in the hierarchy of painters in the international competition scene (at the bottom end
but I am trying my hardest to learn from the best and improve what I do. I have entered GD\'s and other competitions in the past, lost, and come out of it smiling because I saw what beat my entries and they were awesome.I\'m guessing there may be a failure of empathy going on here and I guess, for anyone who hasn\'t laboured on a single model for 150 - 200hrs for the specific reason that it is to be entered in a specific category of a specific competition it may be hard to understand the emotional committment that takes and the the desire, not to \'win\', but to have that effort recognised by nothing more than fair judging and a set of rules which are laid out and then adhered to by everyone involved.
I kind of feel I may be banging my head against a wall here trying to explain myself however if anyone wants to pm me and/or e-mail me I\'m happy to explain myself in much more detail and let you judge for yourself if I am a bad looser or a fair competitor who is merely sticking his head above the parrapet to flag up a flaw in the system.
I Wonder, Rev, had I posted that exact same story, but ended by stating that I\'d won a demon at the competition in question and was questioning the system on someone elses behalf because I felt THEY had been wronged... then how would you feel about me? Would I then be a \'bad winner\' for saying exactly the same things and flagging up exactly the same problems?
Anyway, I don\'t want this to degenerate into a flame war, so far there\'s been lots of really well considered responses and helpful suggestions made and I thank everyone for that.
All the best
Ben
generulpoleaxe
New member
for the UK GD\'s you have to realize it\'s all about advertisement.
the model should be based off their artwork wether sculpted or not.
also, think about what they are releasing at GD or just after.
those two key things will put you in a stronger position.
the model should be based off their artwork wether sculpted or not.
also, think about what they are releasing at GD or just after.
those two key things will put you in a stronger position.
Infidel Castro
New member
Oh, a PM! I do love PM\'s! Goody-goody!
But seriously, and in all honesty, what I wrote is only about your reaction to losing and the manner in which you portrayed a part of your character. I don\'t know you from Adam and as such I\'m not going to build a negative characterisation of you from one thread. Hell, we might even become friends! All the best with future projects, but please - PLEASE - have a look at your approach to losing. Noone can win everything.
But seriously, and in all honesty, what I wrote is only about your reaction to losing and the manner in which you portrayed a part of your character. I don\'t know you from Adam and as such I\'m not going to build a negative characterisation of you from one thread. Hell, we might even become friends! All the best with future projects, but please - PLEASE - have a look at your approach to losing. Noone can win everything.
demonherald
New member
definitely right there. lots of components help as well although now they\'ve changed how all that works will be interesting to see what happens..
I\'ve lost count of the number of \"Meh\" Orky conversions that I\'ve seen in GD\'s that just don\'t work for me but when you calculate the cost of parts people would need to emulate it your in the £100\'s...
rocketandroll
New member
Thanks, and I will genuinely take a look at myself and if nothing else, why what has happened has upset me quite so much... at the same time, I really do hope that you can see that I have lost pleanty of times before, and I do not expect the \'win everything\', far from it... based on past experience I should \'expect to loose\'
I really am genuinely just flagging up what I believe are some genuine problems with the way a specific competition was run whilst trying hard not to upset any specific people who were involved.
I would really like to think that I WOULD have asked the same questions as a winner as I am as a looser.... maybe time will tell on that one.
Anyway, I would much prefer \'friends\' to \'ripping each other\'s metaphorical throats out based on snap judgements\' if at all possible
Cheers again
Ben
rocketandroll
New member
We have a team saying.... \"Orks win... period\"
That may however, as you say, only have applied a year or two ago.... maybe \'Chaos wins... period\' should be the new saying
Ben
foosgoalie1
New member
One problem I see is that we can\'t compare your work with that which had won. Just because you may have spent 100\'s of hours on a project doesn\'t mean it automatically is award winning. We also cannot know the judges\' side of the story or their reasoning behind their choices, past indiscretions may not apply here. I cannot side with you when I don\'t know the whole story.
rocketandroll
New member
I appreciate that...
drop me a PM and maybe I can explain a little more.... \"Names and details have been altered to protect the innocent\" as they say
For now, I wanted people\'s feeling on what their reaction would be in a hypothetical scenario.... not for people to be \'on my side\' per-se.
Cheers!
Ben
Infidel Castro
New member
But it\'s surely NOT hypothetical! Come on man, admit it!
rocketandroll
New member
You just wanna see big ol\' fight don\'t you
The jist of the tale of woe is based on events that actually occured, yes, of course it is... had there not been a competition to loose then I couldn\'t be a bad looser could I
However whilst I am happy to question the judges impartiality and willingness to bend their own rules... I am not willing to start posting details that will lead to other painter\'s abilities being called into question.... it\'s not an issue with them, it\'s an issue with the judges.
Taking it to the extreme, had a judge decided to place a 12 yr old\'s Youngbloods entry into open, and it won gold... I\'d like to think that the painters who lost out would not be seeking to draw attention to the lack of skill shown by the 12 yr old, but more to the lack of judgement shown by the judge who placed it in that category in the first place.
Does that make sense?
Ben
