Where do we draw the line?

[Avelorn]

@Yramag:

And that is exactly why these kinds of discussions seldom leads somewhere.

I wouldn\'t judge the same way as you. If for example the eyes were done wrong on a miniature, if they looked wonky I would of course detract points. If it is a painting competition it is not pure creativity that gets the vote. if you for example paint boromir perfectly but as GW did it (which are inspired by the film) it would still win over the wonky eyes in my book if I could choose just between those two and a silver and a gold. Something expeptionally creative can win over perfection though but only if it reaches a certain standard. I don\'t argue with you on copying other people\'s ideas though.. but it\'s hard to draw the line.

the fact that we argue is a testament that most of the time the judges do the best they can.

I don\'t think it\'s good taste to mention people\'s name like that though, but I leave that up to moderators to draw that line.

 

[Infidel Castro]

Originally posted by Avelorn

Why? I like his arse better then mine, just checking the view though! But mate, just a tip, if you\'ve got a problem of a head up your ass, fiber is not the way to go... your posting-diarrhea just keeps getting worse! :moon:

Coming from a bloke who would argue that a box of Cornflakes is art, that\'s more than rich! Fair play, talking about verbal diaorrhea with you is a bit of a non-starter in every sense. Some of the bollocks you spout beggars belief.

Originally posted by Avelorn

Seriously! I think your missing the point here. There are often issues with the judging on these kinds of events and sometimes things just don\'t add up.. and believe me when I say it\'s not always about subjectivity. It doesn\'t mean you are a sour looser if the game you play isn\'t fair from the start or if the judges are tit and his brother twat. I think you are in such occations right to be angry just as with all other competitions. I bet if there was a judging-scandal in rugby you would hand out the torches and pitchforks, or am I wrong?

No, because as a sportsman ( I play weekly) the scoreboard is the final word.

Originally posted by Avelorn

And some people are sour loosers... not much to get irritated about. I generally just laugh, which doesn\'t help to improve things I\'ve learnt..

A noble attitude and one I\'d agree with, the rest of your drivel aside.

 

[Yramrag]

Ok. Sorry about using names. in hindsight and for future times XXXXX will suffice.

I hear what you are saying and i think goes to address the initial concern that we can say that judgin is wrong or biased but unless we know what exactly the judge was looking for, then we can\'t confirm it. The act of judging is subjective.
As a parallel, my whole school made us enter some nation wide essay competition by saying our entry was a work requirement for the year. It wasn\'t to be graded, but we had to hand it in. No one was particularly interested in doing it and i think it came to the night before it was due before i started it. I ripped off a whole heap of movie references, comic character names and other stuff, came up with a story that i had once done for an RPG session and turned it into an average story. I will say that with my initial essay/story, i wrote at the back that i copied names, ideas and terms from source \"such and such\". To my complete surprise, i finished 5 in the school. No idea how they figured that out. People above were better and people below were better. No problem it doesn\'t mean much, it is only a school competition. 2 months later i am told i won the national competition. I am even more confused now. When i was told, my reaction was, \"But it was a crap story\". I was told by the national organisers to fix up a few bits of my story. What bits? The bit where i said that i had copied parts from other sources.
Where i am going with this is, there was a ceremony at some academia day on a sunday where i was awarded my prize, a medal. I have felt bad for getting that award ever since then. I know i didn\'t deserve it and even though i did tell people that i didn\'t deserve it, the judges for some reason felt that i did.

 

[Jazz is for losers]

You have taken some abuse in this thread rocketandroll, not sure why, but I agree with your sentiments (I read the original post and some of the replies). The GD judges are generally, or have been in the past, a corrupt bunch of ***ks. There\'s no other reasonable explanation for some of the decisions they have made, aside from stupidity.

 

[Braveheart712]

You may know alot about painting but you blew it with your people skills ( or lack there of). I reviewed your work, you are technically good but without seeing your competition it is unfair to say whether or not you were deserving of the award you think you earned. Yes, GW has problems, and the sky is blue and water is wet. Yes, they may have changed their minds as to what category you should have been placed in, but confronting the judges \"earned\" you the spot you placed in. Maybe you should have let the judges place you in the category they felt you should have been in. Without the confrontation you may have place or actually won. I am sorry that your hard work and many hours of painting was not rewarded but let it go, work harder for next year and chalk it up to a lesson learned.

 

[Ebonbuddha]

That pretty much sums it up.

Originally posted by Braveheart712
I am sorry that your hard work and many hours of painting was not rewarded but let it go, work harder for next year and chalk it up to a lesson learned.

 

[rocketandroll]

Cheers again all for your comments, and special thanks to those who have PM\'d me and shared similar experiences.

In hindsight, knowing it would do nothing but give me a way of venting my frustration, perhaps I should never have started this thread...

As for the comment that I should spend my time painting rather than wasting it venting on forums... I\'ve been working on my entry for Salute the last two days, hence the fact I\'ve let this rumble on with no input (seems there are pleanty of other wronged parties out there happy to argue my point for me

Also, thankyou to Vincenti for his comments, they are appreciated very highly.


I won\'t be making the mistake of posting about such controversial topics on CMON again.


Cheers all


Ben

 

[Infidel Castro]

Originally posted by Braveheart712
You may know alot about painting but you blew it with your people skills ( or lack there of). I reviewed your work, you are technically good but without seeing your competition it is unfair to say whether or not you were deserving of the award you think you earned. Yes, GW has problems, and the sky is blue and water is wet. Yes, they may have changed their minds as to what category you should have been placed in, but confronting the judges \"earned\" you the spot you placed in. Maybe you should have let the judges place you in the category they felt you should have been in. Without the confrontation you may have place or actually won. I am sorry that your hard work and many hours of painting was not rewarded but let it go, work harder for next year and chalk it up to a lesson learned.

Aye, I can go with that.

And let\'s remember one thing - the subject is only controversial to you rocketandroll, noone else. That\'s the mad thing about this thread - you are seeing controversy where there simply is NONE AT ALL.

 

[Jazz is for losers]

Originally posted by reverend


And let\'s remember one thing - the subject is only controversial to you rocketandroll, noone else. That\'s the mad thing about this thread - you are seeing controversy where there simply is NONE AT ALL.

Speak for yourself. If what you say is true there wouldn\'t be a couple of these threads every year around the various GD events, and people in this thread wouldn\'t be writing nonsensical comments such as \"Paint better by wasting less time here lolz!!\"

 

[Avelorn]

@Reverend:

Coming from a bloke who would argue that a box of Cornflakes is art, that\'s more than rich! Fair play, talking about verbal diaorrhea with you is a bit of a non-starter in every sense. Some of the bollocks you spout beggars belief.

I try to stay 50/50 give some take some. I thought we were playing but that is full of actual spite. I like arguing, some like fishing.. I like arguing. If you don\'t agree you can always argue with me.

No, because as a sportsman ( I play weekly) the scoreboard is the final word.

Good on you, mate! I don\'t think I know anyone like you, then. Myself, if someone is overlooked because of arguing with the judges, or say because he/she isn\'t employed by GW studio I get irritated (none of it has happened to me). I can also get sad if I don\'t place or get recognised on something I\'ve spent hours on but how I handle that emotion is another story.

This is still a forum about miniatures and not the New York Times. So flying off the handle, discussing fairness or venting your frustration here is okay with me. People here have been in similar situations and can learn you tackle whatever you feel.

What I suspect and what made me say that \"shut your pie-hole\" comment in the first-place is that you would probably not say \"get a life\" to someone being mad about rugby, you\'ll probably offer advice on how to tackle it? I would anyway (if you wouldn\'t I think you\'d be unsensitive). I believe it is your view of this specific hobby that makes you say it. It\'s not about how good you are painting.. (I mean you are a good painter, love your style, and I would like to see you pick up that brush again). It\'s about not taking it seriously it\'s not a \"proper job\" for you as you say. It\'s not about tackling emotions and opinions that we are trying to do in this thread.. Instead I get the feeling that for you it is about that you shouldn\'t have much emotions about it in the first place. And I don\'t agree with that... people argue over everything that matters to them and I think you need to use that beloved perspective of yours to understand that.

And let\'s remember one thing - the subject is only controversial to you rocketandroll, noone else. That\'s the mad thing about this thread - you are seeing controversy where there simply is NONE AT ALL.

Of course this is a personal thread. But it is controversial for people attending to the competitions if it means that the competition hasn\'t been fairly judged. But the problem is that none of us can establish that. So I buy his story until I see all the miniatures and then say my view on what he can improve to next time. It is still a valid topic non-the-less.

@Yramrag:

Nice story. I have trouble competing in subjective things like painting actually.. because if I win I see those that didn\'t place and feel unworthy, if I loose and see some of the winners I think, why? I can do that!

 

[Infidel Castro]

Avelorn - the bloke lost and can\'t take it! And the rugby analogy goes out the window if you watch it at all, as the players are taught to accept any decision from the ref. That means the fans also tend, in the main, to accept results. No one can change results by whinging. And as far as painting goes, I\'m on a sabbatical. Painting as employment for a year left me in a position where I needed to stop for a bit and concentrate on different hobbies.

Finally, I doubt very much you were trying to be funny

 

[Avelorn]

The guy lost and can\'t take the way he lost. he didn\'t think he lost fair and square and that\'s what this discussion i about, coping with that. I\'m aware of that even though I don\'t watch much rugby. I like that attitude much, but it is being taught as you say.. and for good reasons.

It was ment to give you a chuckle like you do when you taunt each other with half-truths etc. If you made me mad for real i wouldn\'t have said it like that.

 

[Ebonbuddha]

Is it sumed up now? lol

 

[Grumgore]

Originally posted by pez5767
I\'ve been to 4 GD\'s myself. I\'ve entered one and didn\'t make the cut. I could see why i didn\'t make the first cut after the fact. Dissapointing but fair. The model that won in my catagory had recieved an honorable mention the year before... the exact same model painted by the same guy. EXACTLY THE SAME MODEL. That bugged me... but the model was better than mine so... what could I do?
<snip>

Are you sure it was the EXACT same model? I did something similar to this once. I entered in a GD and only got an honorable mention, though I thought my miniature was painted better than some of the winners. After discussing it with the judges, I found out that I actually missed some spots on the miniature that could only be seen if you look at the model from the bottom. Embarrassed, I fixed the miniature and re-entered it in a different GD and got Gold.

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by Grumgore

Originally posted by pez5767
I\'ve been to 4 GD\'s myself. I\'ve entered one and didn\'t make the cut. I could see why i didn\'t make the first cut after the fact. Dissapointing but fair. The model that won in my catagory had recieved an honorable mention the year before... the exact same model painted by the same guy. EXACTLY THE SAME MODEL. That bugged me... but the model was better than mine so... what could I do?
<snip>

Are you sure it was the EXACT same model? I did something similar to this once. I entered in a GD and only got an honorable mention, though I thought my miniature was painted better than some of the winners. After discussing it with the judges, I found out that I actually missed some spots on the miniature that could only be seen if you look at the model from the bottom. Embarrassed, I fixed the miniature and re-entered it in a different GD and got Gold.

As long as a miniature doesn\'t place in a GD you can enter it again.

 

[Trevor]

Not in Australia...

 

[lono]

Hypothetically speaking, this sounds like a load of nonsense to me. Do the bitter thing much? It\'s always a sad day when I have to say that Mr Reverend is talking sense, but once again it\'s that day.

 

[Ebonbuddha]

Rev always speaks sense. Until he disagrees with me.

 

[Avelorn]

Yeah pretty much my feeling as well... :innocent:

 

[Infidel Castro]

But the thing is, I love you all in multifarious ways I come here because I agree with 90% of what you all think, I suppose. The occasional niggles are par for the course on a forum inhabited by (thankfully) intelligent people. And lono lol