Firearms & co... hate or love them?

[Bobinator]

Its not odd its just daft, you dont even see the old methers running around chasing the wildlife, (not even in crappy old Bradford) they just get steamed and head to a soup kitchen. If I were so broke that I actually thought to myself I know I\'ll go bag me a few elephants to fill the freezer with, I\'d probably then have a sudden flash of inspiration and just go sell my vast arsenal of firepower back to my local arms merchant and go buy a party size box of pot noodles. You dont need a gun to provide food either, all you need is fishing line. Not only can you fish with it but you can set up snares all over the country side, it might not be humane but if I were starving hungry I dont think I\'d be worried about the terrible death I\'m inflicting on some poor defenceless wigglywoo. If you want something a bit bigger to feed more people with you could construct a bolas to catch the prey on the hoof, plus fishing line and a couple of conkers is infinitely more hi-tech than your more common rocks and string type. As a side benefit you can also add on an old tin to either end and construct yourself something called a \'telephone\', give one end to your neighbour and keep the other and you can talk to him/her over a distance of at least several feet, Handy in an emergency. Also in the light of all the people worried about being robbed at home you could set up a series of alarm bells around your house using yet more line and old tins, in the event that rusty tins do not scare off the would be intruder you can place tripwires at all points off ingress, imagine the total overwhelming surprise, leaving the burglar far to embuggered to even think of initiating phase two of his dastardly plan, plus the crashing would alert you early enough to grab your handcrafted garote, which will enable you to either render your foe unconious or if you are possessed of Chuck Norris like strength you could take his head right off!
Bugger me, you could even eat him if you wanted or just hack him up and use him as fish bait. I think that totally destroys any arguement that even the most ardent gun lover may have, I thank you.

 

[Avelorn]

@Bobinator: Word!

 

[Modderrhu]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie
Mmmm, microwaved hamster..... Or rat. Can you believe I ran a rat over on the way back from work yesterday? Bradford is a real scum pit!

For a quick moment, I thought that Bradford was the name of the chav... disappointed in you, SM.

@Bobinator: lol Me thinks the cans would serve mainly to advertise that a wierdo redneck hillbilly type lives there.

 

[Talion]

Originally posted by Bobinator
Its not odd its just daft, you dont even see the old methers running around chasing the wildlife, (not even in crappy old Bradford) they just get steamed and head to a soup kitchen. If I were so broke that I actually thought to myself I know I\'ll go bag me a few elephants to fill the freezer with, I\'d probably then have a sudden flash of inspiration and just go sell my vast arsenal of firepower back to my local arms merchant and go buy a party size box of pot noodles. You dont need a gun to provide food either, all you need is fishing line. Not only can you fish with it but you can set up snares all over the country side, it might not be humane but if I were starving hungry I dont think I\'d be worried about the terrible death I\'m inflicting on some poor defenceless wigglywoo. If you want something a bit bigger to feed more people with you could construct a bolas to catch the prey on the hoof, plus fishing line and a couple of conkers is infinitely more hi-tech than your more common rocks and string type. As a side benefit you can also add on an old tin to either end and construct yourself something called a \'telephone\', give one end to your neighbour and keep the other and you can talk to him/her over a distance of at least several feet, Handy in an emergency. Also in the light of all the people worried about being robbed at home you could set up a series of alarm bells around your house using yet more line and old tins, in the event that rusty tins do not scare off the would be intruder you can place tripwires at all points off ingress, imagine the total overwhelming surprise, leaving the burglar far to embuggered to even think of initiating phase two of his dastardly plan, plus the crashing would alert you early enough to grab your handcrafted garote, which will enable you to either render your foe unconious or if you are possessed of Chuck Norris like strength you could take his head right off!
Bugger me, you could even eat him if you wanted or just hack him up and use him as fish bait. I think that totally destroys any arguement that even the most ardent gun lover may have, I thank you.

That has to be the best explanation ever. I applaud you. lol

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by Talion

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by Talion
I\'ve noticed that you all seem to hunt a lot. Something else I\'m firmly against (but that\'s another topic)

Actually, I absolutely hate hunting, but I have and will do it to survive.
When it\'s hunt or go hungry after a few nights of going hungry, you\'d come around.

Yes obviously to survive anyone would, but where the hell do you live. You do live in the USA (richest country in the world) don\'t you. How often do you need to go out hunting for food?

Like I said above unless you\'re lost in the wilderness for days on end, then yeah, survival of the fittest. But how often do you get lost in the wilderness for days on end, and just happen to have your hunting gun with you.

Again this is a difference in the way we\'re brought up. You lot are brought up on hunting (or should I say certain states). We\'re brought up to buy food from shops.

It\'s a difference in morality, I guess.
Some of us believe welfare is for those who truly cannot do without, who have no absolutely no other means. I am healthy, I have a rifle, I have ammunition, I can shoot, I have a means. I will not steal from those who need it.
I\'d also say it\'s a pride issue. I, myself, would never accept government assistance at all, unless there was absolutely no other way to survive.
To me it\'s like saying \"OK, I give up, I can\'t do it, even though our ancesters had far less technology, less education, and no government assistance, I, the more forward man, cannot provide for myself.\" It\'s embarrasing to say the least.

Hunting barbaric? Ever been to a slaughter house?

@bobinator: The rifle you sell could\'ve brought in far more food than the noodles, I\'ve got a .22 that\'s brought more food to the pot than if you\'d sold it at 40X it\'s resell value. Selling your rifles to get food is just a poor economic choice.
Also, the vast majority of our guns are actually passed down from father to son and become heirlooms. My father once had a .12 gauge shotgun that was passed down from his great grandfather, I was too young to remember what year it was made, but this shotgun had silver filagree, it was a piece of art, a rarity today. He ended up selling it, because he had already had a .12 gauge, a far more utilitarian piece, but it served it\'s purpose. He sold it, and it broke his heart to have to do so.

 

[philologus]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie

Originally posted by philologus

Originally posted by Talion


Strange I re-call a country siging up to the UN, but then doing what it wants anyway when it\'s decided action shouldn\'t go ahead. Lets take all their weapons away too.

I\'m all for the U.S. leaving the U.N. immediately. We pay 22% (the ceiling) of the U.N.\'s annual operating budget, and more for \"peacekeeping\"... Yet we have the same voting authority on the security council as nations who pay 6% or less.

Good. Some may argue that the US owes far more to the world considering the amount of carbon emissions they produce and the damage that this is doing to the planet.
We haven\'t opened a coal burning plant in 27 years. China is currently starting up about 2 a week. Policies like Kyoto are designed to limit U.S. economic power and nothing more. Japan didn\'t even sign Kyoto, yep Kyoto turned down Kyoto. But at least Japan pays 19% of the U.N. budget. 2nd only to the U.S.

For a nation that seems obsessed with morals and doing the right thing, the US is remarkably reticent with its foreign policy. It\'s about time the \'civilised west\' started being a little more philanthropic and forward thinking.
We give away millions of tons of food a year, in addition to donations of money in the millions every year. The U.S. govt. gave $20 Million in 2005 to other countries for aid & relief. After the Asian Tsunami in 2004 the U.S. govt. gave $900 million, but individual Americans donated $2 Billion in food, clothing, and cash. Total charitable contributions by private Americans in 2005 came to $260 Billion. So, the wealthiest country does give more, and oddly enough we do more when the govt. doesn\'t force us to give.

 

[Orb]

Originally posted by philologus

Originally posted by Talion


Strange I re-call a country siging up to the UN, but then doing what it wants anyway when it\'s decided action shouldn\'t go ahead. Lets take all their weapons away too.

I\'m all for the U.S. leaving the U.N. immediately. We pay 22% (the ceiling) of the U.N.\'s annual operating budget, and more for \"peacekeeping\"... Yet we have the same voting authority on the security council as nations who pay 6% or less.

[/quote]

curious as to what you say there. I understand many americans don\'t like the US. By implication, do you think that as the US pays 22% of the costs it should have 22% of the voting rights and hence 22% of the power??? So it would be the US\'s UN and not United at all? As it is the voting in the security council is so flawed anyway

 

[supervike]

Nicely said Philo!!

Why do all these threads turn into America bashing?

Where are all the threads denouncing North Korea, or Venuzuala?

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by supervike
Nicely said Philo!!

Why do all these threads turn into America bashing?

Where are all the threads denouncing North Korea, or Venuzuala?

It would be pointless to criticise North Korea and such countries here as that would be like kicking in open doors!

Lots of people have issues with American policies, though, and wants to discuss that with Americans. And, like have been said on numerous occasions, Americans tend to regard criticism of the country as criticism of its people.

 

[Highbulp Billy]

Originally posted by supervike
Nicely said Philo!!

Why do all these threads turn into America bashing?

Where are all the threads denouncing North Korea, or Venuzuala?

Personally I would never join in the America Bashing...


... because you\'ve all got guns and would \"pop a cap in my ass\" :twisted:

 

[philologus]

Originally posted by Orb

Originally posted by philologus

Originally posted by Talion


Strange I re-call a country siging up to the UN, but then doing what it wants anyway when it\'s decided action shouldn\'t go ahead. Lets take all their weapons away too.

I\'m all for the U.S. leaving the U.N. immediately. We pay 22% (the ceiling) of the U.N.\'s annual operating budget, and more for \"peacekeeping\"... Yet we have the same voting authority on the security council as nations who pay 6% or less.

curious as to what you say there. I understand many americans don\'t like the US. By implication, do you think that as the US pays 22% of the costs it should have 22% of the voting rights and hence 22% of the power??? So it would be the US\'s UN and not United at all? As it is the voting in the security council is so flawed anyway [/quote]

You are correct the security council is highly flawed:
1) Russia still has a permanent vote and veto power, even though those rights were granted when it was the Soviet Union (not re-assessed for the radical difference in population/groups that the change represented)
2) USSR & US continually vetoed each other throughout the cold war achieving very little.
3) The General Assembly is restricted from bringing new items to the floor unless requested by the security council.

This list is just the beginning. I don\'t want the U.S. to have more voting authority. I just want us to leave the UN completely. A body that makes 12 resolutions against a specific nation and then resists when a member nation wants to take action against the offender is useless at best. If they weren\'t so despicable a body they would be laughable. Think \"CHAOS\" from Get Smart.

Perhaps the greatest complaint against the UN mindset is that regardless of what the U.S. does we will be criticized until we become as Socialist as other nations. Almost everything done or resolved is an attempt to undermine American capitalism. My problem is that when the U.S. becomes as socialist as many would like, and all citizens of the big happy global village have only what they need; WHO will swoop in with aid if no one has disposable income or accrued wealth? The U.S. can\'t win. The Europeans (in general) chastise us for being \"too religious\" \"too moralizing\", while the middle east hates us for not being \"religious enough\" or \"amoral\" i.e. The Great Satan.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by Ritual
And, like have been said on numerous occasions, Americans tend to regard criticism of the country as criticism of its people.

But it gets increasingly hard to \'see\' this when every opportunity that rises becomes a frag fest or a pile on. If there were a balance it would be much easier to understand. But there isn\'t any semblance of that whatsoever. I can\'t recall ANY thread where America was praised or defended by anything other than Americans.

Its very akin to someone saying how they hate your family...your family is evil, your family only cares about itself, your family deserves to die....Oh, by the way, we like you and your siblings, we just hate your family.

 

[philologus]

Originally posted by supervike

Originally posted by Ritual
And, like have been said on numerous occasions, Americans tend to regard criticism of the country as criticism of its people.

But it gets increasingly hard to \'see\' this when every opportunity that rises becomes a frag fest or a pile on. If there were a balance it would be much easier to understand. But there isn\'t any semblance of that whatsoever. I can\'t recall ANY thread where America was praised or defended by anything other than Americans.

Its very akin to someone saying how they hate your family...your family is evil, your family only cares about itself, your family deserves to die....Oh, by the way, we like you and your siblings, we just hate your family.

This is true. I don\'t mind too much, as I like the debate. But, I don\'t remember any threads where everyone ganged up on the president of nation X or the terrible policies of Y\'s citizens etc. It always comes back to the U.S.

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by supervike

Originally posted by Ritual
And, like have been said on numerous occasions, Americans tend to regard criticism of the country as criticism of its people.

But it gets increasingly hard to \'see\' this when every opportunity that rises becomes a frag fest or a pile on. If there were a balance it would be much easier to understand. But there isn\'t any semblance of that whatsoever. I can\'t recall ANY thread where America was praised or defended by anything other than Americans.

Its very akin to someone saying how they hate your family...your family is evil, your family only cares about itself, your family deserves to die....Oh, by the way, we like you and your siblings, we just hate your family.

You\'re right! But, two things... I can\'t recall any other country being praised either and as people from many other countries don\'t have the same feelings toward their respective countries as you do toward yours it\'s hard for them to see when the discussion turns to bashing in your eyes.

This is one of the problems of having this type of discussion when the participants have different values and different ways to establish their identities. One of the reasons I tend to stay out of these types of debates if they go on for too long.

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by Evil Dave
I, myself, would never accept government assistance at all, unless there was absolutely no other way to survive.

directly you mean.
You take government assistance every time you gas up your car or buy a hamburger.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by vincegamer

Originally posted by Evil Dave
I, myself, would never accept government assistance at all, unless there was absolutely no other way to survive.

directly you mean.
You take government assistance every time you gas up your car or buy a hamburger.

Exactly.
Such as welfare programs. They were designed to to lend a hand, not become a way of life.

 

[Modderrhu]

Originally posted by phiIologus
This is true. I don\'t mind too much, as I like the debate. But, I don\'t remember any threads where everyone ganged up on the president of nation X or the terrible policies of Y\'s citizens etc. It always comes back to the U.S.

Hands up, who agrees with Bob Mugabe or Fidel Castro? No-one? No-one at all to support them? Damn, and here I was hoping to see some debate.

 

[Jericho]

Whoa, where\'d all this P&R discussion come from

I think it\'s probably a good thing we don\'t mix politics and mini painting very often, politics are a surefire way to drive a wedge between a good portion of the board members. Everyone\'s allowed a certain freedom of speech of course, but it\'s the kind of topic that can get rather out of hand pretty quickly and frankly there\'s a lot of communities out there better suited for that kind of thing.

 

[Orb]

Maybe the \"bashing\" of the US comes from the fact that the US has influence over all of us, in one form or another. Also, issues such as gun control in the US does indirectly relate to us elsewhere; US culture permeates many of our countries be it TV, music etc.....
True, China does affect us all, and a host of other countries, but there are no Chinese forum members here to discuss the subject with.

I would guess that there are loads of issues regarding the UK that wind folk up, but that mainly only affects the UK members.

The US is what it is.......it has a high profile in the world so should expect people from elsewhere on the globe to have opinions. It\'s simply clear that in this community many issues that get raised here that involve the US often are not popular outside the US.

\"American Football\" for example!!

 

[Wolf Fang]

*dances around* i know i put that big list of things ive fired.. bu that was before i got my licence... and well.. i just got my licence! rifles here i come! lol