Golden Daemon Fraud
- Thread starter pitynoman
- Start date
I am sure it happened at least a few times,plus from some entries makes me wonder if somene paid off/placated the judges.Either way I don\'t care to start an argument between myself vs. staunch GW supporters,GW drones,and the rest of their fanboys.I do like a lot of stuff about them,I hate a lot of stuff about them,and definitely think they are not infallible.However I am just damn curious about the particulars of this one.I sell painted minis quiet a bit and had one or two end up in local painting contests,but hey I am just flattered...what are you gonna do put a disclaimer by every auction?
Whoever did defraud Golden Daemon missed the whole point of the competition...too bad.
BTW SturmHalo I liked your comments on casting...ie about freedom and independent thinking.
Whoever did defraud Golden Daemon missed the whole point of the competition...too bad.
BTW SturmHalo I liked your comments on casting...ie about freedom and independent thinking.
I don\'t think that\'s it.I don\'t consider what he did cheating, he did paint the figure in question which looked incredible.But the answer is out there.Anyone?If in fact what the GW posted is about Hardy(which I doubt),they need to\"go get bent\"
I don\'t know what that means,but it sounds very British.
I don\'t know what that means,but it sounds very British.
Infidel Castro
New member
With the GD competitions nowadays you have to travel and take the mini with you. What if you can\'t travel because you\'ve a gammy leg or agoraphobia? You can\'t even enter! That\'s a scam on GW\'s part. It ain\'t fair is it?
What piece did this guy paint? Can someone post an image for me to see? If it was that someone else converted it, so what? It\'s a bleeding painting competition!
Please someone post a pic!
What piece did this guy paint? Can someone post an image for me to see? If it was that someone else converted it, so what? It\'s a bleeding painting competition!
Please someone post a pic!
C
Con EL Pueblo
Guest
Victor Hardy\'s miniature...
...Wasn\'t the fraud ( atleast, not the Chaos Termie
).
In his article about how he painted the bugger, he mentions that he had bought a ready-converted mini, and done some extras on it. He even posted a link, where you can see the unpainted, converted mini.
\"Vernon! That light! ...The Jeffersons\' dog is back!\"
...Wasn\'t the fraud ( atleast, not the Chaos Termie
).In his article about how he painted the bugger, he mentions that he had bought a ready-converted mini, and done some extras on it. He even posted a link, where you can see the unpainted, converted mini.
\"Vernon! That light! ...The Jeffersons\' dog is back!\"
Victor Hardys integrity is not,nor ever was in question,least of all by me.Still wish I could know who it was and what mini.
As far as travelling to the GD yeah it\'s not fair I agree.If you could enter by mail,I would have done so a couple of times.GW could not cope with the influx of entries,though imho.
As far as travelling to the GD yeah it\'s not fair I agree.If you could enter by mail,I would have done so a couple of times.GW could not cope with the influx of entries,though imho.
D
DragonDawn
Guest
The \"mini\" in question is the second place Asurman model in the large model category. This piece was originally converted and painted by Clouseau (real name withheld since I don\'t know if he want\'s it publicized) and placed second in the 2001 Australian GDs in the same category. Eric Kelso is the name of the person that fraudulently entered this piece in Chicago. He is now banned from EVER participating in a GW event again.
He also pulled the same stunt at GenCon in 2001, entering a Tammy Haye that he bought off of ebay.
I don\'t know why GW did not give the particulars in the printing of WD - I don\'t think it makes them look bad at all and that jerk just gets off easy. Anyways, hopefully this will get the gears turning and the Demons will be run in a more proffessional manner from now on. I\'m not trying to be a GW nay-sayer here, it\'s just that there are some inconsistencies in the rules that need to be cleaned up.
He also pulled the same stunt at GenCon in 2001, entering a Tammy Haye that he bought off of ebay.
I don\'t know why GW did not give the particulars in the printing of WD - I don\'t think it makes them look bad at all and that jerk just gets off easy. Anyways, hopefully this will get the gears turning and the Demons will be run in a more proffessional manner from now on. I\'m not trying to be a GW nay-sayer here, it\'s just that there are some inconsistencies in the rules that need to be cleaned up.
Dirty Water
New member
Wow... that\'s f\'ing lousy man..
I didn\'t find what Victor Hardy did unfair, since he spent a LOT of time on the mini anyway.
But what Eric Kelso has apparently done should be enough to get him executed - well, maybe not, but at least kicked out of all GW events ever, and from Gen Con.
I love Craig Clark\'s Asurmen model, and I also dig Tammy Haye\'s Khorne Juggernaut model (pictured in the new Chaos Marine \'dex).
So I say, let\'s start a hate campaign! :flame:
I didn\'t find what Victor Hardy did unfair, since he spent a LOT of time on the mini anyway.
But what Eric Kelso has apparently done should be enough to get him executed - well, maybe not, but at least kicked out of all GW events ever, and from Gen Con.
I love Craig Clark\'s Asurmen model, and I also dig Tammy Haye\'s Khorne Juggernaut model (pictured in the new Chaos Marine \'dex).
So I say, let\'s start a hate campaign! :flame:
pitynoman, I don\'t think that GD entry by mail could ever work. In fact it would make fraud even easier: it is much easier to post them a picture of a model you didn\'t paint than to take a model you didn\'t paint with you to a games day. Also, it is possible to disguise the bad parts of a model in a photo so the judging would not be as reliable as it currently is.
IMHO Fraudulent entry is very rare at the top level, the people who do it are just embarrasing themselves, can they really be proud of awards they have won through the efforts of other people?
IMHO Fraudulent entry is very rare at the top level, the people who do it are just embarrasing themselves, can they really be proud of awards they have won through the efforts of other people?
darthfoley
Active member
If the Asurman is one guilty of the crime, then there is another one. On the minipainter list, it was revealed that the Bretonnian Men-at-arms Regiment entered by Adam Purdy was painted by someone else.
Chrispy
Active member
Yeah, I really don\'t know why they didn\'t disclose his name.. seems to me he deserves to get his head bitten off by every painter and be blacklisted in Ebay. What he did was right up there with stealing and I for one wouldn\'t want anyone using my sold minis in a contest. I don\'t care how much money I would get, integraty is integraty.
Fraudulent Golden Demons ???
Just my opinion - you shouldn\'t be allowed
to enter miniatures that you didn\'t convert. I realize that the Golden Demon
is a paintning contest first and foremost,
but you and I both know that a great
conversion significantly adds to your chances of winning. Painting someone
else\'s conversion work and entering it as
\"yours\" seems fraudulent to me.
But that\'s just my opinion....
Just my opinion - you shouldn\'t be allowed
to enter miniatures that you didn\'t convert. I realize that the Golden Demon
is a paintning contest first and foremost,
but you and I both know that a great
conversion significantly adds to your chances of winning. Painting someone
else\'s conversion work and entering it as
\"yours\" seems fraudulent to me.
But that\'s just my opinion....
inquisitorooney
New member
on minipainter awhile ago someone claimed that they had sold their Brettonian Squires unit and then a month later saw it place second in the Canadian Regiment category. There was a big hubub and I believe the guy reported it. so, there were atleast two heresies commited this season.
Just to stand up for Victor Hardy a little more, he got the original converted mini from Brother Sinear who runs Repent. He then did something like 20 hours of work to get the mini even closer to what he wanted before painting it.
IMHO spending 20 hours on top of the pre-made conversion counts as him doing it himself. That\'s an assload of work, and he redid a lot of the stuff Sinear did for him.
If Adam Purdy did the crime he\'s accused of then I\'m really disappointed. I was there, and probably met him and shook his hand behind stage after the trophy ceremony... if he didn\'t earn it then that\'s a shame. There were plenty of other entries that could have deserved a trophy.
IMHO spending 20 hours on top of the pre-made conversion counts as him doing it himself. That\'s an assload of work, and he redid a lot of the stuff Sinear did for him.
If Adam Purdy did the crime he\'s accused of then I\'m really disappointed. I was there, and probably met him and shook his hand behind stage after the trophy ceremony... if he didn\'t earn it then that\'s a shame. There were plenty of other entries that could have deserved a trophy.
borg
Administrator
Victor\'s name shouldn\'t even be mentioned in this thread! Victor is a true champion! It has to suck to have to write an open letter to defend yourself instead of just being happy that you are the first person ever in the US to win a second slayer sword. Bases too big... you didn\'t sculpt it... WHATEVER, can we be more jaded here! To me, that is a bunch of bull!Besides we are comparing oranges to apples here. Buying a ready painted mini and entering into a competition is rather different than buying an unpainted piece and then spending another 60+ hours in additional conversion before the paintjob. If I can paint half as good as Victor, I would sell my soul! \'nuff said.
The one thing I\'m glad to hear in all this is GW is going to make an effort to remove some of the possible avenues for cheating. I\'m not sure how they\'ll do it, but any efforts they persue will be better than the current situation. There have been rumors of people entering things they didn\'t paint before. Or taking parts out of a diorama and entering basically the same thing in the single figure competition. Or just entering the same piece year after year till it wins.
Hardy deserved every award he\'s got.
As far as entering by mail,I meant the actual figs not pictures.As far as mr.Kelso is concerned(if he is in fact guilty...how reliable is that info),he contacted me(he bid on some of my minis...didn\'t win) and asked me to paint some stuff (I couldn\'t take the comission...I was swamped).He also mentioned that he is a Golden Daemon winner.I consider myself a decent painter and I know I wouldn\'t pay someone to paint for me(nothing wrong with that...just for me it defeats the purpose of why I paint),now I thought to myself if you are good enough to win a Golden Daemon why would you need someone else to paint for you.hmmm?If he is innocent than I hope this gets straightened out,however if he is not $$#2@ SHAME!!!on him.Why would you feel the need to impress someone you\'ve never met,nor would probably ever meet?
This is beyond my comprehension.
As far as entering by mail,I meant the actual figs not pictures.As far as mr.Kelso is concerned(if he is in fact guilty...how reliable is that info),he contacted me(he bid on some of my minis...didn\'t win) and asked me to paint some stuff (I couldn\'t take the comission...I was swamped).He also mentioned that he is a Golden Daemon winner.I consider myself a decent painter and I know I wouldn\'t pay someone to paint for me(nothing wrong with that...just for me it defeats the purpose of why I paint),now I thought to myself if you are good enough to win a Golden Daemon why would you need someone else to paint for you.hmmm?If he is innocent than I hope this gets straightened out,however if he is not $$#2@ SHAME!!!on him.Why would you feel the need to impress someone you\'ve never met,nor would probably ever meet?
This is beyond my comprehension.
