It\'s not our fault...

[Torn blue sky]

Erm...YAY?
Has this topic been hijacked into a discussion about how cool mobility aid is?
Cuz if it is, I can live with that a lot easier :]

 

[vincegamer]

I posted last night but somehow it isn\'t here so I\'ll sum up.

Jim, I hope you aren\'t serious by saying I think obese women are unfit mothers. I never said anything like that.
I said if a health system is paying to help people have children, why can\'t it use the health of the potential mother as a criteria for who it pays for? Fact is, excess weight is a health risk factor.

Lloyd, I agree that BMI is a shoddy standard, but it\'s better than nothing. Also, there is a lot of good science supporting it.

Ebon, I resent being called a biggot for stating that obeisity is a health risk. However, nice to know that I have the power to determine what is or is not socially acceptable.

p.s. (not another p.s. ) I hope you guys still think of me as a friend.

 

[penguin]

Originally posted by Ebonbuddha
Yay! :flip::bouncy::flip::bouncy::flip::bouncy:

Originally posted by Dammekkos2

Originally posted by Ebonbuddha
Didn\'t you say you were leaving?

Wow. I am now, that\'s for sure.

Stop trolling EB. Dammekkos2 was right to be offended, and I for one hope he stays.

 

[finn17]

Hmmmm....

If people are having a \'spat\', it\'s probably wisest to leave things up to the moderators to sort out....IF they feel intervention is necessary. It\'s not a good idea to wade in oneself.....

 

[Infidel Castro]

Blimey, things have kicked off a bit. I\'m all for an enlightened health service, but I\'m against frivolity. Council tax is going up, energy bills are going up, water rates are going up...to a certain degree I can control these matters by using less electricity and water, etc., but one thing I can\'t directly dictate is the use of my N.I. That\'s a shame as i think for the money in the service it\'s enough to just about keep hospitals in the black. I get Chern\'s point (lucid as usual the swine lol) but I feel there\'s more important matters behind the issue that are more difficult to quantify. Confusing old lark, and I certainly don\'t have the answers lol

 

[Torn blue sky]

What do you mean byu starting something you can\'t finish!!!
it\'s people like you that start riots then promptly leg it at the first sighn of the fuzz! lol

 

[Infidel Castro]

Erm, hold this will you.

*scarpers*

Hoho! lol

 

[tadme48]

Just want to throw my twopenny worth in.

I have had 3 heart attacks, have diabetes and also cancer, no not looking for sympathy. I have NHS and private treatment and the only difference between the two for me has been: 1. waiting a few weeks extra for NHS treatment and 2. There is more sky channels in a private room.

Having seen the bills for the private treatment and having a rough work out of the NHS bills I hav actually paid for my treatment and have some left over for a couple more heart attack treatments, and to pay for my diabetes bill for another 6 years. This does not take account of the NI i will pay between now and then.

I am just one of the unlucky ones that this happens to, the life balance thing. Somewhere in the world is some one completely abusing themselves and not having anything happen to them.

Choice of who should adopt or not be able to should be down to whether they can give the child a good home and have a fair chance of that lifestyle being maintained for the forseeable future. If someone wants IVF then fine but pay for it but also go through the same process as adoptive parents and ensure that they can look after children. I am sorry that anyone that wants to have children can\'t but even those that can naturally should be made to ensure they can afford it and not have them as some do just to get free housing and sit on their back sides all day living off my taxes.

 

[Dedwrekka]

Originally posted by steelcult

Originally posted by Astorderire

Message original : steelcult

Personally I dont think that either couple should be able to get the procedure without having to pay for it.

If I understand your point correctly, that means only rich people should be eligible to be helped to have children...
I\'m afraid that as long as you haven\'t feel first hand the distress of people wanting kids and being unable to do so, you can\'t realise how painfull this situation is.

You are making an incorrect assumption here - that I am in a realtionship were we would have no issues having children if we so desired. But since I\'m not and desire children, I do understand completely the kind of despiration these people have. But, as Hoblit says, with the number of children out there that are up for adoption, why should the government pay for this procedure for anyone?

Yes, there is a need for basic, affordable healthcare in most industrialized nations - but specialty procedures that are not life saving or do not improve the quality of life do not in my opinion fall into that category - and AI is a specialty procedure that some, if not all of the cost of should be born by the individuals involved, not society as a whole, again in my opinion.

In essence; we put too much into this bloodline thing. We keep attempting to increase our familys and attempt to create people to carry on our family names, yet it matters too much to us that the person to carry on our family names be of family blood.
Somewhere down the lines we all started getting snooty and got very self-important about where our decendants come from.

Also, if they wanted to make it truely fair they\'d have to also allow male homosexual couples to get the service to knock up a surrogate mother.


Now, onto the obesity thing. I\'m generally on the dont care policy plan here, yes it sounds kinda harsh, but it just means I don\'t care if your obese or not (Err...to a reasonable extent or course). However, I can understand how they would use Body mass index to limit the use of government funded Invitro Fertalization, as there are risk factors for the unborn child depending on the health of the mother. Which is an odd statement for me to make because I also believe in abortion, but I believe that if your going to keep the child, you should keep the child healthy.
Now adoption is a completely different subject on this. I do not believe that BMI is a good guildline for adoption potential as body type is decided in large parts by the genes, so there is a lessened risk to an adopted child than there is to a child of IVF.

In the end, it\'s about the child\'s welfare and how we seem to care too much that the child be of our own flesh and blood. We put too much into those two words.