Multiple posts

[Klute]

Right Im going out on a limb here and going to speak my mind a bit.
Disclaimer.....I am going to use a specific set of images but in no way intend it as a personal attack on the artist who has done them.A post I saw this morning got my goat up which set the ball rolling in my mind.
Anyway the post was thisHes Back
This to me seems to be a response to people low scoring the artists other posts.
Looking at his gallery 7 out of the top 10 of their images is of the same model ie Nurgle Giant. and the lowest scoring post is 8.9 the highest is 9.4.
sorry for shouting but

THAT IS NOT SNIPING

Now thats that out of the way I belive there should be some sort of ettiquette to follow for multiple posts.I for one dont mind a second post but after that get sick of seeing the same one and might invariably score lower becuase of it.No matter how good it is, eg Nurgle Giant.

Like I said ,not a personall attack, an observation.

discuss

 

[Avelorn]

Well, my personal opinion is that 2-3 pictures is maximum of a mini. The ranking system is not perhaps fair, but still it\'s there. Some respect towards the system and the contributors to it should apply.

I think the last post was just a big \"Come and get me\" to the snipers. His main view was down to 8.8 I believe and that was what raised his reaction. He spent a great deal of time on that sculpt and getting 8\'s on such an effort are perhaps a thing that\'ll get me mad aswell.

But I think there are alot less sniping then some people think. Peolpe have different point of views and the question is really. Is that a cool mini or not?

I discussed Jen Haleys paintjobs with a senior gamer, and he said that he thought that many weren\'t fit for gaming. So they weren\'t a part of the gaming universe that even tabletop quality minis attent. Another large issue seems to be base size. If you use a base that are not intended for the mini, then some gamers just shrugs and say, well that\'s wrong. When it comes to greens, some people just vote low because it\'s an unpainted mini.. sure it\'s got potential, but it\'s not finished. And don\'t get me started on styles, choice of palette and if the sculpt itself is cool or not. Because that matters too. If you hate a particular sculpt/company etc. you are perhaps likely to detract a point for that. well I don\'t think even cyril or haley won\'t get an average over 9 for an old plastic Woodelf archer! (Well.. that is a challenge if you read this)

 

[kow-lown]

well mark, i really enjoyed that giant first, giving 10 to the 4 1st pics of it.... but after i have been flooded by thousands of nurgle giant shots, i must admit i was really bored and gave it a 9 or maybe one time an 8 even if it deserves a 10 cos i was really upset... and that last one really upset me...

_________________________________

my CMON gallery

 

[Ritual]

Multiple posts tick me off as well! I think two is ok, but after that, you should inlcude a link to your own website for further pictures. I\'ve seen 4 posts of the same mini occupy 4 spots in the top-10-last-7-days list, and that\'s quite bothersome.

 

[Klute]

It is possible to be ranked no1 with one multiple post.Thats what gets to me most.It doesnt seem fair to me.

Anders is right for me,a couple of posts then a link to others.

Im not saying change the rules,just that we as responsable people should follow some sort of self imposed guidelines.

 

[Trevor]

To be fair, I think that he was sniped, but the anti-sniper software kicked in and they recovered.

Whilst I hear people complaining that 9+ scorers shouldn\'t complain about being sniped I think its just as annoying whatever your score. Lets face it getting a 1 on a 9+ mini is even more ridiculous than getting a 1 on a 7+ mini.

I sometimes score lower on the second image of a mini, and if there are heaps of images, I tend to just not bother voting at all.

I actually don\'t care if the same mini is in the TTL7 4 times, its the kiss of death and having higher scoring minis up there keeping me out of it is a good thing as far as I\'m concerned.

I\'m going to get back in my vat of vodka now in anticipation of the slurry of sniping/scores/voting arguments.

Edit: I agree, 2-3 pics max.

 

[Ritual]

I use the TTL7 as a way to see the best current posts, for inspiration, and it ticks me off to see just the same mini in nearly all the spots on that list. That\'s what bothers me. I don\'t care about it otherwise.

 

[Klute]

Like Anders I use the TTL7 for inspiration too.
I personally saw the a close up Giant post and went to his gallery,chose the final main posting and voted on that,9 btw.
It would be nice if multiple posts were corralated into one for ranking etc.But as with sniping requests etc changes just aint going to happen.
Which is why it is down to us to keep each other in line.
Im not going to give a 1 on a mutiple post but I might subconciousely give 1 less than I would have.Most of the time I just skip them though.

And remember dont concentrate on the Giant sculpt,that was just an example.I dont want anyone thinking Ive got it in for them.

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by RitualI\'ve seen 4 posts of the same mini occupy 4 spots in the top-10-last-7-days list, and that\'s quite bothersome.

Do what I do - only vote on the \"main\" view. If multiple posts languish at 20 votes each for a couple of months, maybe people won\'t do it.

I almost consider more than two postings of the same mini to be a form of spamming, not in intent (I know some people just want to show all views of their work), but in effect. Also it does skew the ranking, I mean if I want to go up in the ranking and all I have to do is submit a few more pics of my best work, that\'s not really fair IMO. I wish the FAQ addressed this problem with some posting guidelines.

Photobucket free image hosting is a good way to showcase alternate views of your work, just host the pics there and link to them in the comments of your post here.

 

[Legacy Account]

No excuse for it. Stick \'em all on one posting! You can get a seriously big pic into 100k without it losing too much to compression!

 

[vincegamer]

Oh, my gawd! Why didn\'t I think of that. I could just repost my best work 4 more times and jump in the rankings!
Epic Space Hulk here I come!

Okay, it would be a bit of a cheat, but I could do 4 more Left Talon of Roc to balance my karma right?



In this particular artist\'s case the figure is so big and the photo so good (and large) that I don\'t begrudge him a few posts.
@Spacemunkie - I don\'t know how many more of these he could get on. These are Huge and sharp pics.
Nonetheless, perhaps it would have been more appropriate to direct people to some other site to look at the detail shots. They are impressive, but I\'m going to rank how I think it stands. I\'m sorry, but an arm is just bitz and while good bitz deserve better than 1, I don\'t call it a cool mini. So if I give an exposed femur a 2 (not that I did, bit I probably would) then I\'m not sniping, I just don\'t think on its own it is a cool mini.
Also, back pics will always score lower than front pics, so probably he wasn\'t sniped there.

Okay so that was pretty much stream of consciousness.
Basically, I agree that if it\'s feasible, you should put all shots in one post, but under some circumstances 2 is necessary and fine. Beyond that you begin trying the patience of the community.

 

[supervike]

good point NSA...

I think it does have a similar effect to spamming when multiple pics are posted.

When I first saw the Nurgle Giant, it was so intricate and so big, that I would have argued that this one, if any, deserved to have multiple submissions. But, after seeing how many there were, I quickly became disenchanted with it as well. I only voted on the \'main view\' also.

I think some sort of etiquette should be followed.

 

[Dragonsreach]

I have a couple of questions on this:

What would you have the Moderators/Administrators do?

Do you want Borg to cease approving multiple images of the same figure?
(Which borders on censorship)

or

Do you want moderators to ask that people self censor?
(Which could be seen to be acting heavy handed)

One of the points of CMON is that there are only a few rules. If you want to limit someone to a maximum of (say) 3 posts of the same figure, do you also want to limit the number of posts a person can put up in the same day? We have all seen, in the past, numerous postings by people who have posted pages and pages of images. Does this also affect your desire to view and vote?

One thing I have noticed is that \"Armies of Gehenna\"*, tends to post an army or squad in a single picture. I find this personally annoying in that the quality needs individuals images to see the miniatures in my opinion. Would this be acceptable because of the quality?

(* not pointing a finger here , just saddened to see such quality work not getting the overall viewing I believe it deserves).



(I\'m being Devil\'s Advocate on this, but I would like your opinions on my questions.)

 

[G I B B O N]

\'bout Giant

OK, OK, thx for your posts, but I think I can drop a word here now.
About Giant & multiple posts. OK, maybe that\'s annoying, but I wanted to show few different views of that mini. Nothing more. Of course there are lots more pics of it in my gallery, byt these are pics of UNFINISHED mini submitted over a year ago. I can\'t see the motives I should delete these pics. It\'s a documentation of my work, and you simply may not vote on\'em. That\'s first.
Second - about sniping. Can you tell me how the hell a mini (with about 14 votes) scored 9.4 falls down to 8.6 in about 15 minutes? hmmmm...... that\'s a riddle, don\'t you think?
So the last pic of it was simply a joke. I didn\'t wanted anybody to vote on it, just wanted to show my displease.

Thanks for your votes and comments, cause I\'ve spent helluva time making this guy, and this project is very important for me. It started very simply - I was sitting at home, looking at my WFB army, Forgeworld giant on my comp\'s screen and feelin\' veeery bored, so I\'ve decided to do something useful. And here you go - the work\'s done. That\'s all \'bout it.
Cheers.

-=gibbon=-

 

[Klute]

EDIT
GIBBON
you beat me to it.
Its more or less what Ive been thinking about the last hour.You and others are free to put whatever you like in your gallerries and its really up to us to decide whether we shall vote on them and if what score.
Yes snipers are a pain but I hope you realise you will probably get more now.It is a shame but seems to be what happens.
Hopefully you understand that myself and probably everyone else thinks that the stuff you have done is fantastic work and in no way am I disagreeing with the scoring or the quality of it.
EDIT OVER

Youve raised very valid points Mike on censorship and such which I maybe did not get across quite as well.
There are no rules on multiple image posting and as such I believe anyone can do what they want.

Ive also been wondering if it is us who are in a minority and most users do not mind one bit?

It would be nice to hear the opinions of those users who do posts this way.

 

[PF]

Message original : Dragonsreach
We have all seen, in the past, numerous postings by people who have posted pages and pages of images. Does this also affect your desire to view and vote?

To be honest yes and that\'s why I waited and apologized for posting so many pumpkins here!

I\'m not asking for changes but I\'m ok for one pic showing an overall view and one \"photoshoped\" for the details.Then why not a painted version if the original work was conversion or sculpt.Then I begin to \"snipe\" ...The thing is that if we\'re several voters to do so and if the pics aren\'t seen in the same order by each of us the \"multiple poster\" can see all his submissions having unexpected scores! Teh untold rules of CMON...

 

[Frustrated Father]

I think multiple views in ONE or TWO posts is sufficient in my opinion. It irks me to see someone post a front side, a back side, a side view and a birdseye all of the same miniature when it could easily be done with photo editing software like Photoshop, Gimp or any number of other programs.

Now 100K is all that is allowed here on CMON, and with good reason, but Photobucket allows you to host a picture of up to 250K and if you have your own webspace (and practically everyone that has an ISP has some form of space - usually 10 megs or so) then you can post an even LARGER picture on your service.

Lets say EricJ took his Ogre and his Maiden and did ten or so pictures of each, then posted them up. Being the great painter he is, he\'ll get good votes, even if some of them get sniped. So he goes from ranking 20 (ok so maybe he\'s not the best example - hehe) to rank 5 or so?

Kinda how I see this Giant as well. We all know this ranking shouldn\'t be taken too serious, and that it has its foibles, but I wonder what your ranking would be without 10 shots of the same giant?

 

[Klute]

OK OK

Enough about the Giant,
I dont want this DISCUSSION to sound like a witch hunt.It really was used as a good example,thats all.

Mike.....no to censorship on all but the most obvious.

Which is why I thought the dicussion route was a better idea.

 

[EricJ]

I think that people should be able to post as many posts as they\'d like, however I also think that in doing so they should

1) understand that there will likely be a number of frustrated people who vote a point or two lower because of it, and their overall scores will likely suffer.

and 2) that they need to understand that having 4 of the same image in the top ten in last 7 that you\'ll attract the attention of snippers that much more readily.

and 3) Basically don\'t let either of these things bother you, because in posting so many you\'re kind of asking for it.

I think that point 1 is valid and a natural part of human nature. In my 2nd point I am not trying to validate snipping, but it is a part of the site, and people really need to get over it, especially after taking extra actions to put themselves in the crosshairs.

My final point is to trust the anti-sniping software! It\'s not perfect, but it\'s not going to let a piles of ones remain on a 9+ mini either. It does its job well enough to balance out all the scores relative to one another. Although I understand as well as anyone the suspense when your mini goes down waiting to see if will kick in or not.

My final-final point is if you don\'t like where your score ended up and you think it deserved higher, there are 2 options, blame snipers, or work harder, post a better mini and grab the scores you think you deserve. I got stuck blaming snipers for a good while, however once I changed my mindset to option 2, I really started to see a new improvement in my work.

I think I\'ve rambled quite long enough

And don\'t let this discourage you Gibbon, your giant is a masterpiece, and I\'d give anything to be able to paint it!!! Top level sculpting.

-Eric

*edit* FF, hmmm, you think #5 with another maiden or two...now we\'re talk\'n! (nono, I think I\'ll get there my own way, I have this little plan for my GD piece, I *hope* it\'ll turn heads )

 

[supervike]

no moderator needed...

When I say I think some etiquette should be followed, I don\'t mean \'enforced\'.

Anyone should be allowed as many posts of the same mini as they\'d like, but I would hope the community would \'police\' itself over it.

If that takes the form of \'no votes\' or \'lower votes\' or even comments discouraging the practice.

Kind of similar to the \"another mini\" title. I don\'t want the moderators to block a mini for it being titled that, rather I would like the users to nudge the submitter into naming each submission.