NMM: - A triumph of style over substance. Discuss.

[AAvH-Darkblade]

Originally posted by hagness
I read this, and notice that I don\'t contradict anything that anybody has brought up. You can\'t debate facts, and it\'s useless to debate opinions, and this forum isn\'t for debating anyway, so I don\'t know why people keep attempting it.

Summary: comments GOOD, pics GOOD, forums GOOD. How do ratings contribute in any positive way? So why have them? (If you have a thoughtful answer, post it in a new thread.) That was the gist of my original diatribe, although it was slightly obscured because I tried to make it fit into topic: NMM.

Specifically on NMM: why debate it? How does it help anybody here to know others\' opinions on it? I could give you my opinion on using acrylics, too, would that help you? Probably not, but describing how I painted a particular figure might be of interest.

If you really want to help the people here in a meaningful way, then do so. If you want to do *this*, this site will become ever more quickly useless to the rest of us. Show us your NMM success stories, or your metallics success stories, or even your NMM failures, just give us *content.*

Please, let\'s drop this now-useless thread (useless to begin with IMO, but even more so since my post, to my chagrin), and come up with something better, okay? I\'m putting together a story of how I am collecting an army, what are you doing?

Perhaps, read the threads more carefully and post on topic, while attempting to be at least a little pleasant. Or post new ones appropriate to the topics you wish to discuss. You posted mean spirited, unconstructive, and mildly offensive comments about CMON and the people here. If it was tongue-in-cheek or even mildly amusing, no problem, but I found them to be neither.

As to NMM, I like it as much as Metallics and think both have their place. A new discussion on the value of ranking, scores, voting could be interesting, I believe there have been a few already. BUT, not if you are just going to slam this site or these forums, at least show some etiquette, and if you can’t, remain silent. Normally I’m not quite this verbose ( lol supervike ) but this kind of thing really irritates me. Can’t people talk, you are like the guy in the theatre who heckles the characters in the movie. It’s pointless.

Finn17, I couldn’t have said it better

Originally posted by finn17
It is probably unfair however, to come over here, dump in this particular toilet and then take offence when people moan about the stink. I do think you have had short shrift, but I also think you asked for it, and then asked for a bit more.

But, hagness, you are right on one point, you and I should just agree to let it go. Done. I feel much better now. I will look forward to your article, me, I’m painting for Games Day TO.

Cheers Darkblade

P.S. Finn17, paleotaur and supervike, thanks for always keeping me laughing. lol

Isn\'t it really just all about THE FUN!

 

[supervike]

whew!

thank the stars, Darkblade... I thought you were gonna pull out the dictionary again!!

In all seriousness, this has been a very interesting thread!

 

[Otter]

Originally posted by finn17
\" What colour do I paint my Blood Angels?\" (....? Red!!!! Red!!! you Bastard!!!)

Ok, THAT\'S funny.

As to all the kafuffle about being a \"master class\" and commenting and whatnot, all I can say is that I\'m brand new to this myself and I have learned TONS from this website. I am in debt to not only the big names of painting for their remarkable figures, but also the \"little\" people who take the time to post and to comment.

I really think we should all try and get a \"comment of the day\" campaign going, where all CMON members should be honor-bound to drop at least one or more comments every day. How about that for the next semi-controversial topic, Finn? I can only imagine some of the responses.

- Otter
\"Never send a ferret to do a weasel\'s work\"

 

[paleotaur]

In answer to your so incredibly polite question, Hagness... (insert blatant sarcasm here) We have these forums to discuss things in an interesting way amongst \"our own kind\" and, as Darkblade so rightly pointed out, TO HAVE FUN! Something I am beginning to wonder if you know how to do with regard to mini painting.
Oh, and Darkblade. You keep pitching \'em and I\'ll be happy to keep swingin\' at \'em.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally from Otter:

I really think we should all try and get a \"comment of the day\" campaign going, where all CMON members should be honor-bound to drop at least one or more comments every day. How about that for the next semi-controversial topic, Finn? I can only imagine some of the responses.

Now that\'s a damn good idea. Thanks Otter.
lol(Why is it always women who get the best ideas?Whatever happened to gender equality in that field?)lol

 

[Beelzebrush]

@ Otter.... cool idea... I love some of Finns quotes, so much so that I pinched one to use as my signature... Keep \'em coming Finn

 

[Panza]

Originally posted by hagness
I\'m putting together a story of how I am collecting an army, what are you doing?

Looking forward to not reading it!lol

Seriously, you gotta climb of the highchair and try to get in the swing of this site. Painters just wanna have fun (Cyndi Lauper?) and paint their minis. The forum is a place to chat, exchange stories, swap opinions and throw the odd insult, but you can also learn stuff here, and if you want tuition then go to the articles section where even you might learn something from someone who\'s (dare I say it?) better than you! Careful not to criticise though!lol

In short, chill out, paint an Ork and have a cookie, by the time you finish it you\'ll feel right as rain, and you\'ll remember that you don\'t believe in any of this fate crap anyway...............oops, got carried away.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by Panza

In short, chill out, paint an Ork and have a cookie, by the time you finish it you\'ll feel right as rain, and you\'ll remember that you don\'t believe in any of this fate crap anyway...............oops, got carried away.

THERE IS NO SPOON!

gotta love an obscure Matrix reference!

 

[Tuubje]

Originally posted by Panza
In short, chill out, paint an Ork and have a cookie,

Izz my cookie, ME gonan bash orcz who want my skullsplitter cookies©

Originally posted by hagness
I discuss painting directly with artists I wish to learn from or commission from. I try not to waste time with forums. Gotta go to the OR. Have fun painting, all.

Then why even come here? Go away I don\'t like you! I don\'t even like to flame, but you just force people to... Like I said, you post a mini, you get critique. Simple, if you don\'t want critique, then just go away, mail some wongs on how to paint, but leave us alone, we like it here.

Originally posted by hagness
I\'m putting together a story of how I am collecting an army, what are you doing?

Creating an article on making mini-diorama\'s, but you wouldn\'t like it, I just want to be rated

(p.s. sorry for being rude, but you make me want to :flame: )

 

[Otter]

I dunno... where I come from they call people like the H-man here \"Trolls\". As in \"We will say whatever the hell we want just to royally tick off the regulars for the joy of watching a flame war.*\"

The best thing possible to check if a person is a Troll is to politely respond with your point of view and see if it opens some reasonable discussion. If it doesn\'t - as seems to be the case with Mr. H despite some very well-written attempts on his part - until we develop computers with little hammers that pop out of the top and smack the user on the head for being a moron, the best thing to do is to ignore the Troll. This guy isn\'t enriching anyone\'s lives and I refuse to help him get his jollies off of provoking meaningless controversy.

Anyhow, none of this is new info. At the very least, watching Finn\'s and Tuubje\'s responses is enriching my body of European slang faster than an Eddie Izzard show.

- Otter
\"Never send a parent to do a weasel\'s work\"

* See parents, THIS is what happens when you don\'t give your children that puppy they wanted.

 

[hagness]

back on topic

Good, like to see that the thread can continue in a meaningful way. Out of curiosity, would anyone be interested in a pseudo-scientific study of NMM in recent works?

I\'m thinking of going back through the entries of the last 2 years\' worth of Golden Demons, Golden Toadstools, and online painting competitions, and seeing how many of the entries used: 1) NMM only, 2) metallics only, 3) both on the same figure. I just need some help going through the web pages and making some tally marks. We could also stratify by those that won vs. those that didn\'t, or category (fantasy/sci-fi), to see if NMM has a real effect on overall presentation in any particular category.

If someone here were really interested in proving NMM is a fad or not a fad, this could be an ongoing project. Exactly what is the half-life of a fad in mini-painting? Has anyone been painting long enough to experience a technique that has gone out of style?

 

[Beelzebrush]

Originally posted by hagness
Good, like to see that the thread can continue in a meaningful way. Out of curiosity, would anyone be interested in a pseudo-scientific study of NMM in recent works?

I\'m thinking of going back through the entries of the last 2 years\' worth of Golden Demons, Golden Toadstools, and online painting competitions, and seeing how many of the entries used: 1) NMM only, 2) metallics only, 3) both on the same figure. I just need some help going through the web pages and making some tally marks. We could also stratify by those that won vs. those that didn\'t, or category (fantasy/sci-fi), to see if NMM has a real effect on overall presentation in any particular category.

If someone here were really interested in proving NMM is a fad or not a fad, this could be an ongoing project. Exactly what is the half-life of a fad in mini-painting? Has anyone been painting long enough to experience a technique that has gone out of style?

I\'m getting kind of confused with your train of thought here. You maintain that CMON is worthless as it has a scoring system in place, which makes it akin to a league or competition. Now you are saying that to quantify the effect and impact of the use of NMM, you are going to use competition stats to settle your curiosity. Where is the difference? Why not save yourself all the time and effort and just accept that NMM is another tool in your painting vocabulary. I think you\'ll find that NMM is fairly represented in recent competitions as well as metallics. You\'ll probably find that these stats change by each country.

NMM is a well used technique and also a technique thats worth learning, if only to improve your general painting standard. Now, whether it\'s a passsing \'fad\' or not, it really doesn\'t matter. If it is a fad, which I sort of doubt, then time will tell and there will be other ideas and approaches to discuss.

My advice would be to just accept it and if you don\'t value it, don\'t do it.

 

[finn17]

Originally posted by Otter
I really think we should all try and get a \"comment of the day\" campaign going, where all CMON members should be honor-bound to drop at least one or more comments every day. How about that for the next semi-controversial topic, Finn? I can only imagine some of the responses.

- Otter
\"Never send a ferret to do a weasel\'s work\"

Hi Otter! I have already said in another post that this is a great idea. I can\'t see anyway in which it would be controversial however. This would be a nice, helpful thing to do and would help build up the sense of \'community\' that is already forming/formed.

The only drawback as I see it, and I am playing devil\'s advocate now, is that the number of minis posted to CMON are increasing at such an exponential rate that the few of us who participate regularly in the forums will have little impact on the great bulk of posted images.

If the number of images currently posted was frozen at this moment. It would take any one of us best part of fifty years to comment on them all at a rate of one a day.

I really don\'t want to put a damper on this idea but it possibly needs a bit more focus.

I think we need some suggestions about how this could be made manageable?

I realise I am duplicating something which now has it\'s own forum so I will paste this over there as well. (I trust no-one will consider this as \'forum stuffing\')

 

[mouse]

yeah....i remember...

Originally posted by Corvus
This really reminds me of the thread I start a few month ago in the Confrontation forum about a mini I thought was very expensive.

It also got out of hand a bit

:innocent:

tell me about it Corvus....I shared your sentiments and someone asked me to bugger off.

 

[mouse]

how about ...

Originally posted by finn17
Hagness, I am sure you feel more at home on the \'masterclass\' site and that\'s fine. It is probably unfair however, to come over here, dump in this particular toilet and then take offence when people moan about the stink. I do think you have had short shrift, but I also think you asked for it, and then asked for a bit more.

Would anyone like to suggest a topic for the next \'Big Debate\'...?...?:bouncy:

...starting a \"Tell a Joke\" thread?

i know, i know, mine stinks and should not ever give up my day job...

PS: Smile everyone....

 

[mouse]

okie...okie...

Originally posted by hagness
Good, like to see that the thread can continue in a meaningful way. Out of curiosity, would anyone be interested in a pseudo-scientific study of NMM in recent works?

I\'m thinking of going back through the entries of the last 2 years\' worth of Golden Demons, Golden Toadstools, and online painting competitions, and seeing how many of the entries used: 1) NMM only, 2) metallics only, 3) both on the same figure. I just need some help going through the web pages and making some tally marks. We could also stratify by those that won vs. those that didn\'t, or category (fantasy/sci-fi), to see if NMM has a real effect on overall presentation in any particular category.

If someone here were really interested in proving NMM is a fad or not a fad, this could be an ongoing project. Exactly what is the half-life of a fad in mini-painting? Has anyone been painting long enough to experience a technique that has gone out of style?

hagness, sorry for harsh opening in my previous mail.

However, let\'s be practical and let logic win the day, okie?

NMM (or whatever it\'s called) has been used in the past by artist to emulate metal in their painting...right?

It has been used now and then in the past and present (maybe more now) with whatever name it is called....right?

although metallic paint is readily available, people are still willing to undergo their painting with NMM techniques....right?

NMM painting is considerably more difficult as compared to normal metallic painting ( I emphasize the word \"normal\")...right?

If you agree with all the above facts, then there\'s nothing to discuss further.

IMHO, whether its a fab or not, doesn\'t matter. Maybe it is, maybe not.

To some, it\'s a fab...they embrace it and embelish it the best and use it everywhere. After a while, when the \"fever\" dies down, they\'ll enthusiasm dies with it.

To others, they accepted it as part and parcel of their repertoire of painting skills. NMM becomes part of their \"dictionary\" and use it whenever necessary regardless of how much time and effort it takes.

\"Look at what I\'m wearing, dude!\" exclaimed Britney.

\"Almost nothing, Britney...\" mouse replied wearily.

\"Oh....er...I mean my trousers,\" Britney relied coyly,\" Aren\'t they something?\"

Britney ran her hands down her inner tighs and made a turn swirling her bell bottom trousers.

\"That trousers?\" said mouse.

\"Yaaaaa...\" Britney giggled. \"I paid US$40,000 for it and it\'s a bargain!\"

\"US$40,000!?\" mouse replied incredulously. \"My grandfather used to own one of these chicken stealing pants!\"

\"Well, better than your ugly faded jeans...\" the indignant Britney made a face at mouse. \"They\'re so passe!\"

\"My jeans....they\'re not a fashion statement, you airhead\" mouse replied angrily. \"They\'re my way of life.\"

The mouse ran up to Britney and readily bit on her big ugly toe. She screamed, the mouse ran up the clock, the clock struck one and the mouse ran down, hickory...duh!

PS: No Britneys are harmed in this pointless postings and no reference intended to our airhead.

 

[finn17]

The fumes, the fumes....!

Mouse.

Have you started using spirit-based paints by any chance?

 

[paleotaur]

WTF!! Okay folks, it\'s official. Mouse has gone \'nanners.

 

[Tuubje]

Originally posted by mouse
\"My jeans....they\'re not a fashion statement, you airhead\" mouse replied angrily. \"They\'re my way of life.\"

Behold the crappy power that is photoshop!!

And I also found a picture of Finn\'s and Mouse\'s forbidden lovechild

P.S. sorry for going off-topic, I\'ll go back to being on-topic now...

NMM will never die! Rock & roll!!!

 

[finn17]

Hey!!!

I just praised your article!!! I wish I\'d bloody well read this first.

But hang on......

Isn\'t Photoshop supposed to be able to turn \'crappimini\' into \'supermini\'???

Does this mean it can\'t turn lead into gold???

Wot a surpriselol

ps I\'ll deal with you later....lovechild indeed:moon: